Wisconsin is looking long term

[BACnet]

Yea, they do have some pretty cool maps there. There are exceptions but I think the comparisons between the two maps show some clear trends.

It would be interesting to see the same map but with data from 100 years ago- before the union infestation. I'm guessing that it would look fairly similar to today's map.

[WebCTRL]

Lets compare maps, this is the union vs non union map
http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

This is a map that charts poverty
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html

Apples ..... Oranges...... Show me a map of the bankrupt states versus the Union States map.

The poverty map is created based off of a poverty level set by the US Census bureau, right? Well poverty in NY and Poverty in MS shouldn't really equate now should they? A person can't make $20K (and I know the povert level is $17K and change but 20K is a round number) in NY or Cali and survive, they'd become homeless and thus wouldn't be part of this Census number or they flee and go to a place they can survive based upon thier skills, job history or education. Why is a poverty threshold not consistent with a median income or some other factor for the area measured. You can't compare MS to NY.

And how does the right to work state REALLY help a worker get out of a Union Grip, it doesn't. In GA, you can not take a job with an international manufacturing Company that also does mech service and controls (can't mention names right??) but if you hire on to their Company, the first meeting is with a union rep and NO way to get a job unless you sign on the dotted line! Intimidation, maybe, not legal though in a Right to Work State but it still happens everyday.

IMO, trying to tie in two things that don't have anything to do with one another.

I love the Right to Work State status, at least you can fire someone when they need to be fired, but it does not eliminate the heavy hand of the unions.

No correlation in my book, but I would like data on the Union States map vs. the bankrupt state governments... might be some correlation there. Not sure, but it might be an interesting comparison.

[the mojo]

I'm sorry you had a bad time fighting the union that wronged you it is good that you prevailed. The same sort of thing happens to people that go up against large corporations, It's not right in either circumstance but in the current political climate the middle class is getting stuck between the two and the monied interests are raping us while we are watching the R vs D side show. I don't have it in for conservatives or liberals but this new movement on the R side is neither and they are truly scary.

Ok Ok I have to know what do you find so scary about the new movement?

Could it be that it does'nt fit the MSM mold that is shoveled by the scoup full into the lazy mind.

[netsalt]

I would love to list the reasons this movement scares me but we have some after hours work coming up and I have got to get started. But just briefly, the movement started as a grassroots org with the best of intentions and remains so at the local level. Where the problem has come in is at the upper levels I believe the movement has been co-opted by people with vast amounts of money to spend so they can further their agenda. It is too coincidental that these proposals all come out at the same time AND have television and radio spots already airing to promote their side of the story. It takes alot of money and coordination - more than what is coming from the grassroots.

[BACnet]

Of course these proposals all came out at close to the same time! They have been sorely needed for 1/2 a century but now with soaring deficits they can't be put off any longer.

[whec720]

As if it couldn't get worse for state workers, here is one story that fits the stereotype (even though this one is a county worker)..........http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,1383236.story

Local government worker dies at her desk and no one even notices till at least a day later. Sorry, but state workers gotta realize, the general public has no sympathy for them. Probably not even for this woman who passed away so unexpected.

Unions and Dems can't hold back the tide forever.

[sysint]

And BTW,
SYSINT, I agree with you man....

Thanks. So did one of my employees.... so they were going to kick him out. But, he quit the union first. And, really he was the best worker I ever had. Says much right there.

[Lash]

I think the reason there is so much red along the south is because of all the illegal workers who are doing the work that americans won't do. That's a whole different issue still needing to be dealt with.

Not really a different issue at all. The unions aren't around anymore to help regulate the pay at those positions.

It's simple really...

1. Union dries up
2. Base pay drops through the floor
3. Americans refuse to do that job for that money (unemployment pays close to the same anyway)
4. Companies need to either raise pay or hire cheap
5. Hello illegals



With that being said... I am a union member and voted for our current govenor. I agree with much of what he is doing (many unions in the area had cuts last year including mine). It's the collective bargaining issue I don't know about. The problem is that I'm used to the private sector where the bargaining is directly between the people footing the bill and the workers. The public sector the taxpayers pay but aren't actually included in any of the bargaining talks. The people paying for the contractual increases/health care/ pension and such aren't the ones actually paying for them like company owners in the private sector.

[bwalley]

Lets compare maps, this is the union vs non union map
http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

This is a map that charts poverty
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html

Why are forced union states economy in the crapper?

Look at detroit and calfornia as an example.

I wouldn't piss on a teamster if his face was on fire.

I had some union workers on my jobsite and they sucked, sucked, sucked.

[RoBoTeq]

Getting back to Wisconsin, it looks like if the leftist Democrats can't get their way, then the people of Wisconsin who voted in the last election will not be able get what they wanted with their votes;

Democrats on the run in Wisconsin avoided state troopers Friday and threatened to stay in hiding for weeks, potentially paralyzing the state government in a standoff with majority Republicans over union rights for public employees.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110218/..._budget_unions

Amazingly, Obama kept comparing himself to President Lincoln during the presidential election. I wonder if Obama and the other leftest Democrats understand what is meant by the words; "-- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Leftist Democrats continuously suppress President Lincoln's belief that this nation is under God. As well, President Lincoln's ascertation that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom started being attacked during FDR's Socialist administration. You see, every law diminishes the rights of citizens in one way or another, and Socialist's love creating more and more laws upon laws.

Lastly, these Wisconsin Democrats are letting the people of Wisconsin know that they do not consider President Lincoln's depiction of government being of the people, by the people, for the people to be valid.

The people of Wisconsin spoke up about what they wanted from government in the last election, but these leftist Democrats are denying the people of Wisconsin their rights as American citizens to be self governing.

[RoBoTeq]

Not really a different issue at all. The unions aren't around anymore to help regulate the pay at those positions.

It's simple really...

1. Union dries up
2. Base pay drops through the floor
3. Americans refuse to do that job for that money (unemployment pays close to the same anyway)
4. Companies need to either raise pay or hire cheap
5. Hello illegals



With that being said... I am a union member and voted for our current govenor. I agree with much of what he is doing (many unions in the area had cuts last year including mine). It's the collective bargaining issue I don't know about. The problem is that I'm used to the private sector where the bargaining is directly between the people footing the bill and the workers. The public sector the taxpayers pay but aren't actually included in any of the bargaining talks. The people paying for the contractual increases/health care/ pension and such aren't the ones actually paying for them like company owners in the private sector.

Why do government workers need unions? Is our very government so bad that persons working for government have to be protected from government? Since most union members are now government employees, and most non-government union workers work on jobs funded by government, it is the taxpayers, every American worker, who is getting screwed by the few who provide billions to Labor Union bosses who turn around and use those billions of dollars to further bribe corrupt leftist Democrats, such as those who are refusing to do their jobs in Wisconsin, to create more laws and provisions to support unions to screw over all American workers some more. It is a vicious cycle of extortion by unions and corrupt government leadership.

As for your bullet points;
1. Union dries up One less faction to feed off of the American taxpayers.
2. Base pay drops through the floor Why? What do you have to support such a claim? Do you not trust in Capitalism? Do you not trust in labor laws that protect workers?
3. Americans refuse to do that job for that money (unemployment pays close to the same anyway) The very reason that employers must provide attractive compensation that will still allow them to make profits for growth.
4. Companies need to either raise pay or hire cheap Or get rid of the parasites that extort company revenue while preventing companies from having management over labor that allows companies to stay competitive.
5. Hello illegals Labor unions are the biggest supporters of illegal workers because they can exploit them so easily in order to increase union worker numbers. http://www.donttreadonvirginia.org/2...nesty-for.html

[Lash]

most non-government union workers work on jobs funded by government

lol...please

[RoBoTeq]

lol...please

Prove me wrong. Every wage scale job I have ever worked on was funded by government in one form or another. Show me examples where jobs being worked on by unionized companies do not have some government funding that requires prevailing wages.