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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    So much for contracts. I asked this in another thread - When did the war on the middle class become the war on unions? The correct answer will get a special favor from the dictatorship that will soon be appointed by the TP.
    Good point. Unions bust their own contracts and do what they want.

    They can rape little companies rather easily and do it all the time. So, I don't care what union you belong to... my opinion is BURY you simply because of what you did to ME. Don't take it personal, right?

    Face it, you are getting what you deserve. Next time when you deal with guys like me that were in the union and had a union company you may consider playing more fairly.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Good point. Unions bust their own contracts and do what they want.

    They can rape little companies rather easily and do it all the time. So, I don't care what union you belong to... my opinion is BURY you simply because of what you did to ME. Don't take it personal, right?

    Face it, you are getting what you deserve. Next time when you deal with guys like me that were in the union and had a union company you may consider playing more fairly.
    Sour grapes much? I have worked union and non union. Currently my position is not covered by a union contract, I have done well working both. So before you rant about the unfairness of your plight I suggest research who is actually screwing you.

  3. #16
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    You would have "sour grapes" if it cost you thousands of dollars in defense. It was either that or close down. So, it cost thousands of dollars to finally win and I'm sure the union (with the 4 person lawyer team) paid an enormous amount to lose. However, this is the way "Big Unions" operate. They bury the little guy and don't care.

    And, I'm no Republican but this Rep/Dem thing is the biggest problem. So, if you want to spout on about Republicans all being evil rich people I say shelve it, you are full of it.

    EDIT: In fact, I paid many more thousands in defense than I'll pay in WI property taxes for quite a few years. So, no Republican can possibly screw me over more than that in many, many years is what I'm thinking. The union was the big hammer. Well, the people and the state of WI may have a bigger hammer and I hope they use it over and over again.
    Last edited by sysint; 02-18-2011 at 02:43 PM.

  4. #17
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    I'm sorry you had a bad time fighting the union that wronged you it is good that you prevailed. The same sort of thing happens to people that go up against large corporations, It's not right in either circumstance but in the current political climate the middle class is getting stuck between the two and the monied interests are raping us while we are watching the R vs D side show. I don't have it in for conservatives or liberals but this new movement on the R side is neither and they are truly scary.

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    A contract is a legally enforceable agreement between two or more parties with mutual obligations. Is it a leftist concept to uphold a contract? If contract terms can be changed by either party to a contract without paying damages what is the point of a contract. If this is how we balance the budget according to the principles of the TP - I proudly stand by my first impression. We should not accept the idea of "any means to an end" by riding rough-shod over the laws of this great country.
    OK, let's take the left turn and go with it. We'll use the legal argument when it suits the left, but even so, a contract has to be "reasonable" within its language, scope and coverage, right?

    How can a collective bargaining agreement with public sector workers first off be "reasonable"? It certainly can not be open ended to be enforceable forever, right? That isn't reasonable. How could it be?

    As far s the leftist concept (leftist, marxist, socialist, communist, etc.) of upholding a contract, I contendt it (and anything the left wants to use at a time to its sole benefit) IS and WILL ALWAYS be a leftist concept as viewed by the left, for the left...

    The right to re-negotiate a contract is always in existence and if you look at the collective bargaining agreement, does it not have a right to "Amend and Modify"? Also don't most contracts have a cancellation clause at least in an Open-Ended contract or self-renewing contract?

    And isn't the "any means to an end" concept a leftist concept also, I mean isn't that what O used for Healtcare......
    Isn't that what the Dems are doing fleeing to Chicago (notice that they flee to NICE Hotels in the expensive BIG City and not to the Motel Six in Smithville, huh? Bet the good people of WI are going to pay for that move by the D's too!

    Any means to an end, PLEASE!!! Lefty gets called Lefty in these times. At least be consistent when using an argument. Facts help too! The old Rules for Radicals play book has been exposed. We now know the tactics and we call them like we see them. Do away with D's and R's, the common sense party is taking over in America.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebCTRL View Post
    OK, let's take the left turn and go with it. We'll use the legal argument when it suits the left, but even so, a contract has to be "reasonable" within its language, scope and coverage, right?

    How can a collective bargaining agreement with public sector workers first off be "reasonable"? It certainly can not be open ended to be enforceable forever, right? That isn't reasonable. How could it be?

    As far s the leftist concept (leftist, marxist, socialist, communist, etc.) of upholding a contract, I contendt it (and anything the left wants to use at a time to its sole benefit) IS and WILL ALWAYS be a leftist concept as viewed by the left, for the left...

    The right to re-negotiate a contract is always in existence and if you look at the collective bargaining agreement, does it not have a right to "Amend and Modify"? Also don't most contracts have a cancellation clause at least in an Open-Ended contract or self-renewing contract?

    And isn't the "any means to an end" concept a leftist concept also, I mean isn't that what O used for Healtcare......
    Isn't that what the Dems are doing fleeing to Chicago (notice that they flee to NICE Hotels in the expensive BIG City and not to the Motel Six in Smithville, huh? Bet the good people of WI are going to pay for that move by the D's too!

    Any means to an end, PLEASE!!! Lefty gets called Lefty in these times. At least be consistent when using an argument. Facts help too! The old Rules for Radicals play book has been exposed. We now know the tactics and we call them like we see them. Do away with D's and R's, the common sense party is taking over in America.
    Thank you Mr Beck. I'm glad you cleared that up for us.

  7. #20
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    And BTW,

    SYSINT, I agree with you man....

    Also, how can a person (who hires on for a job) be forced to join a union without ever voting and/or choosing or wanting to be in that said union?

    How is that fair? How is that reasonable? Isn't that the definition of "any means to an end".

    That DAM& sure ain't freedom to me!

    Collective Bargaining, just a buzz word for I can't stand up for myself!

    And a Socialist Concept that is complimented perfectly by Entitlements...

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Thank you Mr Beck. I'm glad you cleared that up for us.
    You are very welcome Ms. Pelosi!

  9. #22
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    Let's keep in mind that even after they pass this and fix the public sector union problem in Wisconsin, there is still a lot more work to do.

    Specifically, Wisconsin is one of the "Forced Unionism" states where you can be denied access to jobs unless you agree to join a union and pay you mafia dues. They really need to join the "Right To Work" states by passing laws making it illegal to bar people from accepting a job.

    Again, this is a great development and I look forward to this philosophy sweeping the nation. But if we want to fix the economy and end the outsourcing of jobs, Wisconsin and a handful of other states need to address the union infestation in the private sector too.

    A map of Forced-Unionism vs. Right-To-Work states.

  10. #23
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    Lets compare maps, this is the union vs non union map
    http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

    This is a map that charts poverty
    http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Lets compare maps, this is the union vs non union map
    http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

    This is a map that charts poverty
    http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html
    When you look closely, it doesn't line up at all. (But it was fun to scroll through all of the different heatmaps on that site, I'll bookmark it for later).

    Look at New Mexico, Montana and Kentucky as good examples where your theory falls apart.

    Once Wisconsin cleans up the public sector I think they might just have enough momentum to add the right to work to their laws.

    The smart states moved to protect workers' rights to work 60 years ago. The time is now for these forced-unionism states to join the [20th] century.

  12. #25
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    Yea, they do have some pretty cool maps there. There are exceptions but I think the comparisons between the two maps show some clear trends.

  13. #26
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    I think the reason there is so much red along the south is because of all the illegal workers who are doing the work that americans won't do. That's a whole different issue still needing to be dealt with.
    I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.

    Veto Pro Pak - The best tool bag you'll ever own






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