WARNING about HVAC trade schools

[jnsrose]

I am not a big fan of tech school on any level in any trade now of days. It has been good for me 30 years ago but now they push them through like cattle and don't care what they learn as long as they pay. Some do better than others. It all comes down to the job market. There are thousands of students that graduate trade school some do great others not so ad neither can find a job because nobody hires without 5 years experience. Few exceptions, the company I work for is one. Way more students then there are jobs.
I wonder, If you were an owner and I came to you with an offer? Instead of taking out a 20 thousand dollar loan for trade school and paying whatever a month to learn theory and little hands on would you consider hiring me for the going apprentice rate and me paying you whatever a month instead for the education? Up to a set amount of course. I think this would be a better way to learn the trade, be better for the employers and would stop these trade schools from popping up wherever and pushing kids through just for the money.

[SoFlaDave]

This thread is an eye opener. I guess I can consider myself lucky that in my area any company worth working for will invest in your education completely if you're willing to start as a helper. I understand not everyone can get by on that kind of money though ($9 hr when I started) but I started young (19) and have been in the trade for 13 yrs now. I make enough to support a family, but I do intend on getting licensed and qualifying a company while pursuing a career in engineering. Anyone I've met that went to trade school but had no field experience have seemed completely lost when thrown to the wolves and I would never recommend going to school if you're not at least employed as a helper. Good luck to anyone wanting to get involved in this trade though. It can be as rewarding as it is a pain in the ass sometimes!

[HVAC-PA-]

Once again:

Lehigh Valley, aka ABE.

I was researching work in the area and couldn't find much. ABE? I looked it up and I find results for an airport. Are they looking for HVAC Tech's because I just updated my resume.

[RoundUp]

One thing I've wondered when I see all these commercials that basically say "Not happy with your current job? Come to <wherever> and learn to be a <whatever>", is what about aptitude? Does having a interest in the particular field they're hawking not matter? One thing I see repeated here often is the question 'Do you like to take things apart?' when someone asks if this field is for them..

The tech colleges seem to project an attitude of 'You'll be able to do this'.. and I don't believe that's entirely true.

Just wondering out loud on my day off..

[timebuilder]

I was researching work in the area and couldn't find much. ABE? I looked it up and I find results for an airport. Are they looking for HVAC Tech's because I just updated my resume.

See the other thread.

LVI is the airport. They are not looking.

ABE is three towns in a row, covering maybe 30 miles total.

[DannyCool]

With all the constructions going on all over the world, is there no place where they are saying, " We are looking...", " Try us...", " we have this and that"?

[trake33]

If you do decide to enter this trade I would recommend getting the degree, there will likely be some point down the road where you need it to obtain a certification or license. But like any education it will not get you wealth. At best it will get you an interview. And if that goes well you get a job. And if you have a job that means you have an employer who is paying you as little as possible. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just the way it is with every business.

The three best ways to build wealth in this country are the stock market, real estate, and owning a business. Not too many people build any real wealth just having a job, so I would recommend being realistic about what to expect with your HVAC/R career.

If owning an HVAC/R business is your goal then you have a long road ahead of you and it won’t be easy, so hopefully this is a career you’re passionate about. I would recommend taking every class possible, acquiring every certification, asking questions about everything, reading, etc. If you work really hard at all this for 5 years you may have acquired enough field experience to go out on your own.

Now you will need a whole new set of skills. Just like you learned the trade you now have to learn how to legally operate a business, tax laws, asset protection, accounting, marketing, write a business plan, inventory, and the list goes on and on. This all requires more classes, seminars, reading, researching, etc. It also requires a bit of capital to start up the business so start saving now. But perhaps most importantly once you’re on your own you really have two choices, learn to sell or get a job.

As a technician working for someone you should do more than is expected of you every day. Go beyond what you get paid to do. You’ll probably get **** from your coworkers, but it’ll also get noticed by your boss and customers. You need to be valuable to the company to have leverage when negotiating your wages. You need to be making them money and solving their problems. The best raises will come when you give your two week notice, sometimes it comes to that. If you know what your worth then get what your worth, but you may have to play games like that to get it.

If going into business isn’t for you, then learn on the side how to play the stock market and/ or get into investment real estate. You’ll probably end up building wealth quicker than the guy investing all his time and money into their own HVAC/R business. Again you need to take classes, read, seminars, etc., but with the internet and living in this country, it’s all made possible for the average Joe. But none of it comes easy, so be prepared for that and don’t quit along the way.

Good luck.

Im considering getting HVAC certified but I'm having information overload. Moved to West Palm Beach, Florida October 2013 from NYC. Unemployed. I want to be Maintenance Supervisor here in West Palm. (It's the equivalent to a residential building superintendent in NYC). But most of the positions I'm seeing require HVAC as a skills/experience requirement. However, some require the skill yet do not necessarily require it as part of the positions daily responsibility. They state they only require "basic knowledge of". I find that confusing. First off, what is the difference between certification and license? My logic is that If most of the Maintenance Supervisor positions I'm seeing are not requiring candidates to have extensive experience then that suggests a degree is not required? Is there anything I should know with regards to residential rentals and condo communities and what HVAC needs they typically have? And If licenses are issued either by registration or by certification, does it mean I can simply buy a book, study and take a test to get a specific state registered class code license? (I think in Florida, a class B is the very basic which allows you to work on systems 20 tons or lighter within your own zip code or something). Lastly, if a degree or vocational school program is a must, how long are most trade school programs and how do you find a legit school?

[trake33]

Im considering getting HVAC certified but I'm having information overload. Moved to West Palm Beach, Florida October 2013 from NYC. Unemployed. I want to be Maintenance Supervisor here in West Palm. (It's the equivalent to a residential building superintendent in NYC). But most of the positions I'm seeing require HVAC as a skills/experience requirement. However, some require the skill yet do not necessarily require it as part of the positions daily responsibility. They state they only require "basic knowledge of". I find that confusing. First off, what is the difference between certification and license? My logic is that If most of the Maintenance Supervisor positions I'm seeing are not requiring candidates to have extensive experience then that suggests a degree is not required? Is there anything I should know with regards to residential rentals and condo communities and what HVAC needs they typically have? And If licenses are issued either by registration or by certification, does it mean I can simply buy a book, study and take a test to get a specific state registered class code license? (I think in Florida, a class B is the very basic which allows you to work on systems 20 tons or lighter within your own zip code or something). Lastly, if a degree or vocational school program is a must, how long are most trade school programs and how do you find a legit school?

[freonr22]

I am not a big fan of tech school on any level in any trade now of days. It has been good for me 30 years ago but now they push them through like cattle and don't care what they learn as long as they pay. Some do better than others. It all comes down to the job market. There are thousands of students that graduate trade school some do great others not so ad neither can find a job because nobody hires without 5 years experience. Few exceptions, the company I work for is one. Way more students then there are jobs.
I wonder, If you were an owner and I came to you with an offer? Instead of taking out a 20 thousand dollar loan for trade school and paying whatever a month to learn theory and little hands on would you consider hiring me for the going apprentice rate and me paying you whatever a month instead for the education? Up to a set amount of course. I think this would be a better way to learn the trade, be better for the employers and would stop these trade schools from popping up wherever and pushing kids through just for the money.

THIS is an excellent concept, on ei have been preaching for years

[Rubio480]

Wow, 10k,15k,20k for school!? I went to a Tech/Trade school here in Arizona (first year program at this school), the instructor did an amazing job setting up the class and prepping for us daily. It was awesome, only about 20 students, 4 hours a night for 3 nights a week. I paid $5200 for the 9 month course which even included the price for EPA 608 certification. Before I even finished school, I started working for the company I am currently at, and I went from $10 an hour to $16. So for HVAC field has been great for me.


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[carmon]

wow ..... my guys get paid to go to school by unemployment insurance.... and I pay the the school fees of $250.00 somethings good about Canada ...lol

[Happyfeet]

There's a great article on the union application process (Entrance exams, interview questions, popular myths) if you're interested. Good luck!

http://www.unitedtrades.org/preparin...plication.html

[dougfamous]

I went to a trade school 20+ years ago. They had an arrangement with my high school where I took school classes half a day and trade school half a day. Two years cost me $350 including a basic tool set (with gauges!) and "lab fees". My instructor was a retired company owner and a helluva nice guy. He was like a living version of Ned Flanders, down to the moustache. He would get old used equipment from dealers and we'd cobble it together. It was an awesome experience. Unfortunately, nowadays it's all about packing them in and turning them out. The kids we get out of school now know next to nothing and expect to make $50/hr while only working 40 hours a week. They are woefully unprepared for the tough living this business is, and most I see are quitting it after a year or two. I am very concerned that after my generation retires and moves on this business will degenerate into a bunch of super aggressive parts changing sales techs who can't fix squat.

[earlburnermann]

Sounds like you have had a tough time.

I had thirty years in the oil heating industry when the crap hit the fan in 2009. Went back to school and graduated with an associates degree in hvac last May. One semester before graduating I applied for a state job in refrigeration. Got the job because of my schooling and even got help paying for the last semester through our union.

Don't think I'll ever see the money I was making in the oil industry. I'm back at the bottom and working my way up again. But I have a stable job, good benefits and chance for advancement through competitive tests. So school really did pay off for me.

As far as financing school, I did put it on my charge card. Have been paying the minimum for the last year without seeing too much downward movement in the balance. Luckily I was offered a loan through another credit company. I'll end up paying the same amount as I was paying and it will be gone in five years.

Good luck Wolfstrike. I'm pretty sure that you will eventually see your schooling as a plus. Better to make the older mechanics nervous with your high score than be comfortable being as dumb as a rock with them.

[Roncool]

Did not want to read all of the reply , Did not read one of them.

YOUR RIGHT

[SIZE=1]This is a horrible field to get started in horrible. You have to eat **** for a long time , weather driven is just that weather driven. You have to have staying power. You have to love the work. That is you would do it for free if you had to. You have to show a lot of fortitude to get someones attrition that can help.

Thats how the industry weeds out the lame ass guys that want to spend time posting this stuff on how bad it is and all the I can't do's and on and on.

12 years ago I started repaying my student loan 17 K . I paid it off 3 years ago, and I went from a 400 credit score to a 800 score now . I own my own business have now 10 people working for me, a crane service, and parts service and we will do 1.5 million next year. 12 years ago I did not know what a compressor was. If you told me to point to it on a unit I could not.

I am not on a soap box or bragging, This whole thing could come down around me at anytime. I consider myself a dumb ass. Never scored high on any test and was always last to be promoted or picked ( dumb ass) I just wanted to point out you can do this if you want , and you can make it if you stop looking at it from what you don't have and start with the I can do this self talk.

Now if you really don't like the work , then forget it move on , but if you do like this then step up your game. I will help you just e mail me and if I can do something for you. I been blessed why not share it.

- - - Updated - - -

Did not want to read all of the reply , Did not reed one of them.

YOUR RIGHT

[SIZE=1]This is a horrible field to get started in horrible. You have to eat **** for a long time , weather driven is just that weather driven. You have to have staying power. You have to love the work. That is you would do it for free if you had to. You have to show a lot of fortitude to get someones attrition that can help.

Thats how the industry weeds out the lame ass guys that want to spend time posting this stuff on how bad it is and all the I can't do's and on and on.

12 years ago I started repaying my student loan 17 K . I paid it off 3 years ago, and I went from a 400 credit score to a 800 score now . I own my own business have now 10 people working for me, a crane service, and parts service and we will do 1.5 million next year. 12 years ago I did not know what a compressor was. If you told me to point to it on a unit I could not.

I am not on a soap box or bragging, This whole thing could come down around me at anytime. I consider myself a dumb ass. Never scored high on any test and was always last to be promoted or picked ( dumb ass) I just wanted to point out you can do this if you want , and you can make it if you stop looking at it from what you don't have and start with the I can do this self talk.

Now if you really don't like the work , then forget it move on , but if you do like this then step up your game. I will help you just e mail me and if I can do something for you. I been blessed why not share it.

[repz]

Working under a mechanic who is patient and willing to teach will trump any school in existence on planet earth. Most techs thought i would pick up things faster than other entry level techs, and they were frustrated with me when other techs were passing my "level" (which wasnt true when i actually observed their skills) - but, it is interesting to note that their skills did increase only because they became "buddy-buddy" with the right techs who were patient and willing to teach. I have heard of one guy picked off from the street who made top mechanic because he became so friendly with one mechanic - that he constantly had a 1 on 1 private training session every single day, he shot up the ranks like a bullet (and of course asked for more money, which the company did not accept, and he ran off to another company - which is a major reason right there why most techs wont teach - that and job security, or just because: "its not their job to teach").

Half the time its not even the techs fault, but the companies - they dont create that culture to teach the young guys.

I have an associates in hvac with a 3.5 gpa, and i was 20 credits from a bachelors in facility management/engineering. 3 certifications (A/c, heating and facilities) - but they were all before i was in the field. The downtime of graduating and looking for work was a year and a half, and even then... i had to relearn everything once i was staring at all these systems and units (especially since most of the meat and potatoes happens in the first and second semester, the later years covers things that you either will never use, or wont be advanced enough or trained enough to breath on- so that right there is 3 years off).

As of right now, 2 years in the field, i shelled out 2 thousand to take new AC mechanic classes just because i feel i wasnt learning from these techs (and one tech is a close friend, but the job over-rules teaching me, i am of course not a priority, top techs get sent on service - i get thrown into PMs).

You really need to push yourself because sometimes you will not have a red carpet under you. And it stings even more when other guys advance only because they know someone in the company, or just got placed with a veteran tech- and you are still pulling strainers and filters. Sometimes you have to even forget the carpet and realize there are doors closed, even though managers like to pretend that some doors are unlocked enough so that they can squeeze out more cheap labor from you so they can meet their PM quota for the month.

I just keep my mind focus on those doors and let it push me to learn more. With each set-back i get angry and i put my head into the books, and when i do my pms i pull apart pulleys and take voltage readings, pull out contactors and re-install them, rewire pumps, etc. But then it hits me... when i become good... would i want to teach someone else? Especially when i have to take into consideration that i worked for cheap and had to spend my free-time and money to force my way through those doors? If i did it... the helper under me can.. and the cycle begins because i worked to KNOW and i didnt get paid for it when i did all the "outside studying"- so .."i dont get paid to teach" either... unless... i become buddy-buddy with a helper... he better like star trek.

[Phxcoils]

Wow, 10k,15k,20k for school!? I went to a Tech/Trade school here in Arizona (first year program at this school), the instructor did an amazing job setting up the class and prepping for us daily. It was awesome, only about 20 students, 4 hours a night for 3 nights a week. I paid $5200 for the 9 month course which even included the price for EPA 608 certification. Before I even finished school, I started working for the company I am currently at, and I went from $10 an hour to $16. So for HVAC field has been great for me.


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Which school did you go to? I am in Arizona as well and my choices are AAI, RSI, or Gateway community college. Just went on a tour of AAI and they seemed really nice and the teachers really seemed to care about their students, it was still 19k to go there. it was an 800 hour course and you get a set of tools when you are done. RSI is about 14k for a 600hour course. Gateway would be the cheapest route but also the slowest at around 2 years. So there is a trade off there. What would you recommend nowawdays?

[BBeerme]

Back in the mid 1980's I went to UTI in Arizona. It cost 6K. At the time, they were the best school in the country. Best money I ever spent.

The school was almost eight hours a day, five days a week for nine months (I was also working 40 hours a week at the time). Sadly, UTI doesn't do the HVAC program any more.

[Phxcoils]

I recently went on a tour with AAI and they mentioned that UTI was the place to go back then. But for some reason shut that part of the school down. I really don't know about shelling out 20k for this school though. I think I'm going to get my AAS from GCC and then a bachelors since I want to get into the automation programming with someone like Honeywell. Just not sure

[BBeerme]

I recently went on a tour with AAI and they mentioned that UTI was the place to go back then. But for some reason shut that part of the school down. I really don't know about shelling out 20k for this school though. I think I'm going to get my AAS from GCC and then a bachelors since I want to get into the automation programming with someone like Honeywell. Just not sure

It is very important to know what your goals are. All of your life's goals must be compatible with one another. For example, here's the way it was expressed to me many many years ago, I think it'll really drive home the point I'm trying to make.

For example, let's say you want to travel the world and stay home to raise a family. Does that even make sense? Of course not. But too many have their life's goals arranged in such a manner. So what you do is take as much time as required to figure out what you want to do and where you want to be. That way, each time you come to or get presented with an option, a wye in the road for example, there will only be one obvious answer on which way to go. Every single time you have a decision to make, it will be to further that ultimate goal; you will then find that making those big decisions will become very simple and obvious. Any conflicts you have in your goals will only slow you down.