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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,901
    Twilly glad to see Payson back.....
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    5,460
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilly View Post
    Twilly glad to see Payson back.....
    Thanks bro. I just got your "invite" in my email. Thought I'd check in.

    I literally lost that RUN CAP BANDIT and basically have no one to work behind except for myself these days now that I work "in house".

    I do get to play with all sorts of different things tho. Since I'm a geek I also even mess with the mag lock, wiring Ethernet stuff, electrical, whatever when I'm not doing HVAC.


    Where is that RUN CAP BANDIT these days, anyway?
    True Heavy Metal Geek

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    5,460
    Oh yeah.
    My brother in law may have been a little butt hurt that we said NAY to that teck2000 or whatever it was called. :-p
    True Heavy Metal Geek

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    Quote Originally Posted by breathe easy View Post
    bt
    I am not interested in another ozone argument either. But I would say that there have been many studies conducted over the last 10 years showing that ozone reacts with many Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC's) to create some nasty byproducts including formaldehyde and ultrafine particles. As it turns out virtually any double bond organic molecule will react with ozone to create these ultrafine particles (less than one micron). Particles this size penetrate deep into the lungs and have been shown to create cell damage and inflammation.

    Double bond organic molecules include most scented products and environmental tobacco smoke. The scented products are generally in a class called terpenes. Terpenes include things like pine, lemon, orange, lime and other common smells that tend to make people think of "clean." Unfortunately, the indoor air chemistry that takes place produces "dirty."

    These reactions are not debateable. They happen everytime. All you need is a source of ozone, a terpene and a particle counter. I have done them many times with the same results. Here is an article I wrote several years ago on experiments done with terpenes and a popular ionizer called the Ionic Breeze.

    http://www.texairfilters.com/article...ngintheair.htm

    The interesting thing about the experiments was that they did not require high levels of ozone to create massive levels of ultrafine particles. Most of the ozone levels in the room did not exceed 30 ppb. The FDA says that 50ppb is permissable for medical devices. So the question would be: at what level does one say that ozone is being used in moderation?

    But this ozone discussion is old hat. We have had it many times before. Here is the really interesting part.

    Ozone is one of a group of unstable, highly reactive molecules called "Reactive Oxygen Species" ROS. If you want a sobering mass of information go to Google and type in: "Reactive oxygen species health effects." You will get thousands of hits and find that ROS are responsible for a host of diseases including cancer, heart attacks, asthma attacks and much more. In any event, the AktivTek product and all of these other in-duct "air cleaners" work on the principle of Photocatalytic Oxidation (PCO). They expose UV light to a catalyst and produce another ROS called a Hydroxyl Radical (OH). Hydroxyl Radicals differ from ozone in that they are difficult to measure.

    So last week I decided to do another experiment. This time I used one of the most popular in-duct PCO devices that I purchased on the open market. I "mounted" it on a box, plugged it in and placed it in a 120 sq. ft. room. I also placed a 100 ml bowl of Pine Sol (a terpene) in the room. The starting particle count in the room was 1,600,000 particles of 0.3 microns and above per cubic foot. The ozone level in the room was 10ppb. Within two hours the particle count had risen to 9,999,999 particles of 0.3 microns and above per cubic foot. To put this in some perspective the worst outdoor particle count that I ever recorded is 6,600,000. This was on a Red Alert smog day just 600 feet from a major 6-lane highway.

    But here is the really interesting part. The ozone level did not exceed 10ppb. In other words, this massive increase in particles was the result of a terpene/hydroxyl radical reaction.

    What this shows is that it is not just ozone that is the culprit in the indoor air chemistry problem, it is also the Hydroxyl Radical and, most probably, other ROS's as well.

    This brings me back to what I have been saying for years. Indoor chemical reactions do not happen in a consistent, predictable manner. They happen randomly and often produce byproducts that are more harmful than the things they are being used to eliminate.
    so PCO technology is dumb
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
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    10,339
    Quote Originally Posted by PaysonHVAC View Post

    Where is that RUN CAP BANDIT these days, anyway?
    in charlotte nc
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  6. #19
    bt
    I am not sure what you mean.

    The idea of PCO technology probably is not dumb. It has potential.

    But if you are saying PCO technology is "dumb" in that it produces unintended reactions and byproducts, I would agree. Indoor air is a complex mixture of gases and particles. To assume that you could add highly reactive molecules to all indoor air and know the outcome of all of the chemical reactions is naive and misguided. Surely, some of the reactions create harmless byproducts. Likewise some of the reactions produce undesireable and potentially harmful byproducts. It is somewhat of a crap shoot. The question is: are the odds worth it?

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
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    10,339
    Quote Originally Posted by breathe easy View Post
    bt
    I am not sure what you mean.

    The idea of PCO technology probably is not dumb. It has potential.

    But if you are saying PCO technology is "dumb" in that it produces unintended reactions and byproducts, I would agree. Indoor air is a complex mixture of gases and particles. To assume that you could add highly reactive molecules to all indoor air and know the outcome of all of the chemical reactions is naive and misguided. Surely, some of the reactions create harmless byproducts. Likewise some of the reactions produce undesireable and potentially harmful byproducts. It is somewhat of a crap shoot. The question is: are the odds worth it?
    yeah... no, by reading the presented material, it is quit leading that PCO is being bashed.

    also i see a lot of the reference material supplied by posters on this subject are old. . . 10yrs old, and older.
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  8. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by meBNme View Post
    I have been selling these for the company I work for for over a year now.
    We have installed hundreds of the Induct 2000 model units and dozens of the induct 750s.

    We have installed the ozone producing models and the ozone free.
    In a few cases the customer requested we return to replace the ozone model with the ozone free model.

    I have customer testamonials and have spoken directly with customers who are very satisfied with the product, and have noticed remarkable differences since its installation.

    They are exceptionaly effective at removing odors, especially the ozone models.
    the ozone free units remove odors quite well too, they just seem to take a little longer to do so, and some heavily imbedded odors "come back" if the unit is not in operation for a while. (several days to weeks)

    I would recomend installing the ozone free model in your situation.

    You can always replace the bulb later with the ozone producing bulb if you like.

    I'm not going to get into the arguments here that usually follow IAQ products like this.
    According to some it's the greatest thing since God invented oxegen.
    According to others its a useless gimmick by evil capitalists that will kill old folks and babies in their sleep.

    I'm not going down that road here.

    I do know this, it works.

    I'have a customer who tried everything from replacing carpet, painting, replacing drywall, hiring mold specialists, water specialists, replacing the roof, etc all to get rid of a bad smell. Finally they called me, I sold them the induct 2000, and followed up a month later.

    I now have their testimonial in my folder witha glowing report on their happiness with our company and the product.

    I have testiminials from customers who no longer have odor issues, no longer have spreading bactarial growth, no longer have breathing problems, no longer have allergie flare ups, no longer have dirty sock syndrome......

    I have never received one complaint requesting a refund because the system is not resolving the issue it was purchased for. Not One.

    2 or 3 wondered if it was working because they purchased it as a prevention instead of treatment of existing problem.
    A few didnt like the "odor" or lack thereof. most of those went with the ozone free model and have been happy.
    A few mechanical or bulb failures have resulted in refund requests.
    In the begginning a few installer errors resulted in same.

    But out of litterally hundreds of units over the last year, a mere handfull have been anything other than very happy customers.

    I got the countertop model in for experimenting here at the office and wherever else I could use it "in the real world", barns, under houses, trashed rental homes etc.

    I can't see air, but I can smell the crap in it.

    I cant see viruses, but I can see bacterial growth.

    I have witnessed first hand how this thing removes imbedded odors, and turns pet feces and moldy smelling rentals into some of the freshest smelling homes youve ever walked in. I've witnessed the crawlspace of my home going from a typical crawlspace smell to an absolutely odorless area.

    I've seen spreading mold or "bacterial growth" stop in its tracks and begin to actually recede after weeks of exposure.


    Now i'm sure you can find opponents of the technology to claim anything to say it isnt so. It's all just coincidence or misenterpretation they claim.

    Whatever....

    Lets be real here OK?
    The dang thing works.
    I've got one in my house. Overwhelming customer satisfaction and first hand experience are telling me that it works as claimed.
    I have mild asthma myself on rare occasion and this thing has certainly not increased the number of "flare ups". If anything it has decreased those numbers.
    Just started in the industry, my new employer has assigned me this project, to develop the sales and installation etc. What sales strategies did you use? What is the total cost for install/product/future servicing? Hope you are still on the forum.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    15

    1332conn

    I have sold the induct 2000 in the past and happen to know that they offer an ozone free model. however if your breathing issue is primarily due to allergies, lennox's pure air air purification system will provide you with both air filtration and air purification. both with no ozone. the price is comparable to that of the induct 2000 and does more. filter only has to be changed once per year. you will get hospital grade air in your home with this system

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    If something is putting stuff into the air in a home that is able to stop existing fungal and bacterial growth, and even make it disappear, and is able to destroy, or otherwise convert odor causing organic compounds to something else, what is the stuff doing to YOU when you breath it in?
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  11. #24
    Although I'm not an HVAC professional, as many seem to be here, I wanted to post my experience with the Induct 2000, since this is one of the forums I read before purchasing it. It might save other potential buyers from making the same mistake I did.

    First, I wasnt' bothered by all the O3 concerns posted here. My non-scientific rationale was that, if hospitals use it, it can't be harmful. And, during the time I know it was working, I never felt any ill effects. But, maybe that's because it only worked for about 3-4 months, during which time I could definitely sense the ozone-smell the installer warned me about. The first 3-4 months, anytime I came home and walked in the door, I could definitely smell the ozone he referred to. I got used to it because, after a couple minutes inside, you stop noticing it. But, that smell upon entering the house went away after the indicated period.

    I brought this up the next time the authorized installers came to do normal furnace check in the Fall. I asked, "So, how do I now this is working since it no longer has the ozone smell?" Basically, their answer is by the idiot light on the unit. If the little light on the Induct 2000 is on, then the unit is working. Naturally, my question was, "Well, don't you guys have an instrument that measures O3 and ROS H2O2 in the home? I know they have such devices because I've found them online. Don't you guys think that, if you're going to be selling and installing these units, you ought to have measurement devices just like you have to measure the various functions of the A/C and furnace?" I could tell by the look on the guys face that he didn't give a s**t. It was like, "Hey, we just sell and install 'em. Got a problem, call activTek."

    I wrote an email to activTek, using the contact email address listed at their site. Never heard back from them.

    It wasn't just the absense of the ozone smell that makes me doubt it's working. It's also that it killed food odors in the home. Now, it no longer does that. In fact, I can smell when a neighboring condo owner (below) is burning scented candles or the other neighbor is smoking, which, by the way, is the whole damn reason I spent over $1000 for the unit and installation. To get only 3-4 months use out of it is nothing less than a rip-off.

    So, think again before investing your hard earned money into the Induct 2000.

  12. #25

    Confused too irritating

    People below question the amount of ozone that should be irritating. I got the airscrubber plus 2000 ozone model and it was too irritating. I switched to the nonozone model. And it was still too irritating to my eyes and back of my nose (even when it's unplugged! Don't know how that could be). But yeah it stops dirty sock syndrome. I do have a metal taste in my mouth also as did a person below. I would like to have something to turn on when necessary. But I don't think I can keep this if it still sheds irritating molecules even when off. The ozone model seemed to turn off okay. I have tried a uv light on the intake before the monster filter I have which worked well when I shut it off at night. The latest model of uv light shining right on the coils did not kill the dirty sock syndrome so I tried activtek. Cleaning the coils worked for a while but it came back.

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