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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    9

    York YCAS0440 "High Motor Temp." code "5"

    Has anybody had any problems with "York YCAS0440 R-22,460v, Wye Delta." chiller tripping off on low curr/mp/hp, alarm.
    I Check the LED on the 2ACE Motor Protector Display and it has a code "5" HIGH MOTOR TEMP.
    This only happens during high ambient conditions of around 106deg. and above.
    I have 2 chillers, with a total of 8 circuits, and all the circuits do the same thing. These chillers were installed in 2001, but were not put in service until 2009.
    I have been through 2 summers so far, and for about 2 days during each summer it can get over 105deg. and the circuits will start to trip off, which can get pretty bad do to the fact they are the main cooling for a large data center.
    99% of the time they run ok. "Well sorta...(3)- transducers, (3)-capacity control valves, (1)-I/O expansion board #2, (1)-comp.vent kit, (1)-slide valve spring kit, (3)-oil filters, and this is in two years.
    I have a York service Bulletin (SB0022) 1002, that seems to describe just what I am talking about . I haven't changed any of the parameters yet. I wanted to talk to someone that may have performed this repair before. I called York and they seem to blow off the service bulletin and asked if I had checked the the refrigerant charge. They said that the amount on the data plate (refrigerant Lbs) is the starting point and that I would have to remove or add refrigerant based on my sub cooling. These chillers have never been worked on before 2009. I had some leaks that were fixed and weighed in the charge. I pulled out about about 20lbs from each circuit to get my sub cooling @ 10Deg. fully loaded. That doesn't seem normal? Still had the same problem.
    I have 3 other YCAS units, a 0130 and a 0330 that I have just weighed in the charge before and I was good to go.
    During this condition "high ambient" the discharge pressure's are 310 to 350 and 0 sub cooling out of the condenser and about 25deg. out of the economizer. I logged it out as fast as I could so I could get water on the condensers to keep them on line. I don't have the log book in front of me at the moment. I did notice that as the ambient temp started to come down below 105deg. my sub cooling started to come back, and below 100deg I was back near normal 10deg.
    These chillers have the low noise fan option and louvered cover panels option around entire unit. Not sure if that has much effect, but I hope someone may have been down this road might know. They are running one compressor on each chiller at about step30. but this site is expanding.
    It's only Feb. Just 74deg. today, but I need to start looking into this before summer comes around. Unfortunately, I can't test it except on those rare days... Are these "YCAS" high ambient nightmares??

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    20
    Wow! It gets hot here, heat index may get to 100-101 but no temps above or around 105 for a period of time, so I feel for you man. Needless to say, i haven't had the need to change any of these parameters. I would go ahead and follow through with all the steps listed in SB0022. Mainly to check it before you get to your "critical" time of year, lower your leaving water temp setpoint to ensure loading of machine and disable some condenser fan motors or block a portion of your coils to get your head pressure up above 300 psig to immulate your high ambient conditions and see if that helps or changes anything. Atleast you'll be able to spot it before it actually gets >100 deg ambient. Sounds like with temps that high that your condenser fans just can't keep up, would be the same thing as insufficient airflow across your condenser coil and that would most definitely make your subcooling low. Let us know if this works for you as I'm curious of your situation. Hope that helps and good luck!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dixiana, AL
    Posts
    2,609
    Get the design ambient on your condenser, simulate that temp, and charge to 15 degrees F subcooling. What you don't say is what your suction superheat is (or anything else, for that matter). It would be very helpful to have a good operating log posted at full load conditions if possible, along with the design data if you have it. What part of the world are you in, that it gets to 105+ and stays there? And it's "just" 74 degrees in February? It was "just" 21 at my house this morning....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    MEXICO
    Posts
    472
    ycas but I've seen machines that pressure is very high, generally up 275psig, oil levels are correct, the refrigerant charge is right, not recirculated air condenser, to repair leaks reached 500 microns

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    9
    It actually was over a 111deg. last sept. 27 for one day, I had 108deg air entering the condenser, but my problems started around 1o5deg.
    I think its design is 95deg. but I am still trying to confirm that.
    SH on the display was 13deg. step 40, from memory..I will pick up the log book next week to get some better info here..
    I feel my main goal is to see how I can keep my condensing temperature down. If it's the parameters causing my main problem, blocking the condenser may not help me know.
    I hope someone has actually performed this repair (SB0022) in the past and had some desirable results to share. It came out in in 2002, so I'm sure it's been awhile since anyone may have done this. Like I said before,York seemed to not want to go with this SB0022 as being part of the problem.
    I'm still concerned that I have some issue with low noise fans being used in a high ambient area, but I can't find anything on that...
    SD CA. it is always rainy,windy,tornados,earth quakes, and haunted,,,76 today...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    370
    just curious....how often do you wash the condenser coils. If your condenser is dirty it will throw your subcooling way off.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the world.
    Posts
    1,602
    FORM 201.19-NM2 (204) this is the form that you should be setting your motor protectors and your mp voltage up in micro panel at the very least verify those settings not SB0022 call and find out if can get the design spec's for that Chiller then you will know what your dealing with.
    Arguing with your Boss is like wrestling with a pig in
    mud.
    After a while you realize that while you are getting
    dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it
    creative problem solving.

    25 years ago we had Bob Hope , Steve Jobs , and Johnny Cash today we have no Hope no Jobs and no Cash !
    I can fix broke but i can't fix stupid !

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Central US
    Posts
    415
    Where are you getting ambient temp reading at? Off of chiller? Where is this chiller installed in relation to any building structures etc... What im getting at as recirculated condenser disharge air?????

    Reason im asking is I had one that would trip 2 circuits similar situation. After reviewing clearances around chiller, the chiller ended up to close to the building structure wall, and had to be relocated to solve problem. It was definately a challenging situation, but I had to threaten the void warranty unless they moved chiller, and eventually they did. Problem solved.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    9
    Did They trip on "High motor temp." or "High DSCH Pressure"? The ambient reading I was getting was from my Fluke meter. I checked the clearances and looking at the IOM manual we are good there..I also checked the air entering temp. on the condensers and found it to be same as the outdoor temp. The coils are cleaned regularly. These units have the louvered panels over the coils and around the compressor sections. We remove them to wash the coils. The manual does state that there will be a 3% capacity loss with this option installed. So I'm guessing it is because they are restrictive. My customer like's the sercurity they give do to the fact these chillers sit at ground level. I may be pulling them off in the summer months, or at least the side that is not exposed to the parking lot. I will call monday and get the design spec's. I will pull 201.19-NM2 (204) and check the settings again. Is (SB0022) incorrect?
    Thanks for the input....

    This is what I have now..

    System 1&2
    Motor current , 176amps =100% MP= 2.85volts =125% (2ACE MP OL Value Set @128)
    System 3&4
    Motor current , 199amps=100% MP= 3.20volts =125% (2ACE MP OL Value set @144)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the world.
    Posts
    1,602
    Those #'s are out of the IOM and yes they are correct the SB0022 is incoorect the factory would tell you to use the IOM settings they are the lastest.
    Arguing with your Boss is like wrestling with a pig in
    mud.
    After a while you realize that while you are getting
    dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it
    creative problem solving.

    25 years ago we had Bob Hope , Steve Jobs , and Johnny Cash today we have no Hope no Jobs and no Cash !
    I can fix broke but i can't fix stupid !

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the world.
    Posts
    1,602
    Are you reverse washing the coils from the inside out ? and also someone else spoke of clearence do you have enough ?
    Arguing with your Boss is like wrestling with a pig in
    mud.
    After a while you realize that while you are getting
    dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it
    creative problem solving.

    25 years ago we had Bob Hope , Steve Jobs , and Johnny Cash today we have no Hope no Jobs and no Cash !
    I can fix broke but i can't fix stupid !

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the world.
    Posts
    1,602
    D I S C H A R G E P R E S S U R E
    C U T O U T = 3 9 5 . 0 P S I G
    D I S C H A R G E P R E S S U R E
    U N L O A D = 3 7 5 . 0 P S I G

    What your are your settings.
    Arguing with your Boss is like wrestling with a pig in
    mud.
    After a while you realize that while you are getting
    dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it
    creative problem solving.

    25 years ago we had Bob Hope , Steve Jobs , and Johnny Cash today we have no Hope no Jobs and no Cash !
    I can fix broke but i can't fix stupid !

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    9
    The clearences are good as per the IOM, as I did look into that.
    I went over the settings with the factory and confirmed that they were ok.
    We have washed the coils inside out, and never get much dirt out of them.
    These chillers are still near new, approx. 4000 hrs. average between all the circuits. They were installed in 2000, and the site was never completed do to the .com bust.
    They were powered up but not running for 8 years. So the coils are in great shape, you can see clean alluminum. In 2009 we commissioned both chillers.
    It is a little hard getting information on these chillers likley do to there vintage ,York has moved on to newer things..
    I planned to set the "DSCH Pressure Unload" down to around 300 and try to spead the load out over the other circuits on the hottest days, but am I masking a real problem??
    Running 300 plus discharge pressure's for hours is causing the "High Motor temps."
    I need to get the design spec's., and see if I'm trying to fix something thats not really broken..363 days out of the year they work great.

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