First, I have never sold a Janitrol/Goodman product.
Originally posted by airconman
you guys gettin paid for defending Goodman so much.... Seems like you spend an aweful lot of time defending them..
Second, I do see a lot of failures with this equipment.
Because its getting installed by people that don't read and follow the instructions. They sell to anyone making their products look bad, by not selling to qualified installers.
Does this make the equipment junk?
No, it just doesn't say much about their marketing ideas.
(I feel they care about numbers, not quality)
But, their quality is making them money now isn't it?
It may not be your way to do business, but that's for them to decide.
Things are changing for the better.
And the things that are making it better, is by having permits and inspections become mandatory for all locations. Testing requirements, to be able to sell/install/service equipment. I feel things are going to get tougher on the DIY in the near future.
We just have to wait it out as it happens. Just like anything else.
I see the most failures with Carrier out in the field. Goodman, maybe second. Followed by Trane. Is there a pattern forming here?
How much does a 10-Year Parts and Labor Warranty cost for a Goodman 5-ton 13 SEER with Variable Speed Air Handler?
Originally posted by RoBoTeq
... There are hundreds of thousands of pieces of Goodman equipment that has been operating just fine all over North America. Goodman is the only manufacturer to publish their failure rates and to make the claim that they actually have a lower percentage of parts failures, including heat exchangers, then any other brand. In five years, not one other manufacturer has disputed this claim and afidavits from parts vendors support this claim.
Comparing to other brands will be interesting.
It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE
with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE
Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities
I just don't want people on here mad at me if they buy a goodman and in 3 years, come back and say you told me it was a good furnace. If I sold carrier Trane Goodman Nordyne ICP... I sure would be nervous on the Goodman ICP side if I had to buy the parts for ten years on them. They have made some good changes, some bad. People ask what ya think of em, so I tell em.... This is what I think, and this is what you think. It's called opinions... not necessarily bashing. As far as the total sales goes... when something costs half of what the Big Names cost, you'll sell more. I'm betting though the customer has no idea what his two or three bids were that there is a 50% difference in bids are there. Seems to me Cadillacs cost a whole lot more than a Chevette. Final prices don't seem to show that though do they? I'd bet there isn't a couple hundred difference in a system price. And you as a Goodman dealer knows what the profit margin does when it is. I have opinions but I would make a bigger profit margin if I only sold Goodman actually. Next would be ICP, then Nordyne. Now you goodman people, can you really argue with that? OOPS I am a goodman dealer.... and a Nordyne dealer,,, ooops and a Keeprite dealer... but I do tell the customer the opinions I have. If he chooses Goodman then, I put one in. 9 out of 10 times he'll go with Trane... World of difference in my opinion. But someone says something about goodman and here you all come to pounce on em. Try to make em look stupid... They aint stupid because they don't agree with what you think. Robo you seem pretty sharp, but what I've read so does tinner. His opinions on equipment are different, so what.
[Edited by airconman on 04-28-2005 at 07:47 AM]
We are all pretty sharp on this forum. My concern is that brand bashing makes us in the industry look petty. If all you can do to sell yourself and the product you prefer to install is to put down the competition, you just don't have much going for you.
Years ago when I was a Rheem/Ruud and Carrier dealer I was forced to do a couple of jobs using Goodman equipment. Times were getting tough and I was getting my butt kicked by others selling Goodman.
Of the hundred or so Goodman systems I installed back then, about 15 years ago, I only know of one blower motor failure in an attic air handler. The last I saw of a couple of heat pumps that I installed back then is that they are still going strong, albeit looking like they are camoflauged by the paint sections that wore off
I absolutely agree that a lot of brands of equipment out there are being improperly applied and installed. That does not make the product bad.
We should dwell on the quality of the installer rather then the quality of the brand. If you come across a furnace that has problems because it is oversized for the home, don't berate the brand of furnace, berate the installation.
As a manufacturer technical rep for several brands I have had to make contractors who have condemned equipment look bad by doing to the system what they should have done. Instead, too many contractors blame the equipment just to sell new.
If the problematic equipment is not that old the customer gets someone like me involved. I inspect the equipment, find the application or installation issue and tell the contractor how to resolve the problem. I have had customers throw contractors who would not cooperate off of jobs so they could get someone who would do what I was telling them to do to remedy a bad install.
Bashing brands is about the worst way to sell yourself. It also makes us all look petty, bickering and unprofessional. So cut it out !
...seek, and ye shall find;..
So always seek the Truth, not just what you want to believe to be true…
Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV
i put in mostly Rheem or Armstrong when i do my resi. i never said Goodman was exclusivly the hack brand.......you did.
Originally posted by dec
I guess I would like to know what tinner73 puts in. I can't blame a lot of installers of differant brands of equipment from coming in here bashing brands. What would you do if you were starting to loose a lot of sales being your prices were not competitive. Sure you can go with a lot more expensive units but in a lot of the areas of the country you really cant justify it and when you look closely there is really not that much differance in most of them anyway. Not like there is a ton of compressor manufactures. There is no guarantee that the guy selling any brand is doing everything the way he should, and the guys in here claiming that less expensive brands are more likely being put in by hacks are blowing smoke. Pretty much every distributor will sell to anyone selling any amount of volume and if you dont beleive that your kidding yourself.
FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!
where to start.....first disregard the Desco reference. wrong thread, my apologies. what i don't like about Goodman is that they are the lowest common denominator of our industry. they don't come any cheaper. it's like a race to the bottom. who can do it the cheapest. Goodman that's who. i haven't installed the new stuff. my butt still hurts from the old Janitrol equipment. Bad HXs....pressure sw....ignitors...caps..Bristol compressors...etc. maybe the stuff has improved. it surely couldn't get any worse. what kind of people buy Goodman?? cheap people with cost as their sole concern.
i deal with Rheem now mainly. but i can get almost any brand i want because of where i work. i look for the least amount of headaches for me and my customers. the few Goodmans i have installed had their share of headaches for me. i put in Rheem or Armstrong no problems. i just changed out an ignitor (gratis) for the second time (2001 unit) about 3 weeks ago. if you guys are slinging Goodman i feel for you.
as stated before........... I HAVE A GMP IN MY BASEMENT AND IT'S A PIECE OF ****.
sorry Robo i don't just bash it i own it.
Hyundai has a great warranty too.....any of you drive one of those.
Airconman gets it.
FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!
Just reading the post and thought I would put in my nickles worth.
I install some GMC, York-Coleman/Evcon, Trane.
They all have their places. Personally I'm building a new home this summer and will put in an XL19i heatpump.
(current house has GMC 12seer w/gmp furnace)
No major problems on this system.
I think the biggest problem with most failures of any brand are due to lack of customer education for after the sale. I see a lot of failures due to lack of routine preventitive maintenance. (filters get changed every? 3-6-12 monthes, condenser sitting under cottonwood tree cleaned every? 2-3-10 years. So that water dripping from the soffit of the house for 2-3 years finally caused the sheetrock ceiling to fall in my living room?
I think an informed customer can go a long way in preventing a lot of failures even if they don't have a service contract and want to DIY (preventative maint.)