13 SEER or 14 SEER?

[gryhnd]

I don't know the model #s, but I have just received quotes on either a 13 or 14 SEER, Carrier brand heat pump - 4 ton, 15kw. Right now we have Goodman 4 ton, 10 SEER, 10kw (which service man has said is not right , we should have 15kw - he said it looks like it might have been 15kw but that someone had disconnected wires or something like that - we are the 2nd owner, the first owner, who semi-built the house himself, cut corners everywhere, we have realized now that we are living here).

I am wondering what the difference is between 13 and 14 SEER? I realize that better efficiency would hopefully make our bill a little lower. The tech was unable to tell me, he thought that years ago the higher SEER were better quality also, but wasn't sure that is the case now. I do plan to call the office and get the model #s.

There is a price difference, but not huge considering Carrier is offering a rebate on the 14 SEER and they told us also a state rebate would apply to the 14 SEER, so it cuts the additional cost in half. However, still not sure we should spend the money.

FYI, he evaluated our house, measured sq ft, looked at all of the registers and intake (correct word?) and feels we need more registers in the living room and that the intake should be larger, so that is included in the price. The living room has a 2 story ceiling (Cape) and is never comfortable. That is where the thermostat is. FYI, we have 3 units - one for upstairs and one for a bonus room over the garage, this is the main floor.

So given the change from a 10 to a 13 SEER, and the other changes to the system, I'm assuming we will see a marked difference to begin with.

Anyone think it is worth it to go with 14 SEER over 13? Thanks.

[seatonheating]

I don't know the model #s, but I have just received quotes on either a 13 or 14 SEER, Carrier brand heat pump - 4 ton, 15kw. Right now we have Goodman 4 ton, 10 SEER, 10kw (which service man has said is not right , we should have 15kw - he said it looks like it might have been 15kw but that someone had disconnected wires or something like that - we are the 2nd owner, the first owner, who semi-built the house himself, cut corners everywhere, we have realized now that we are living here).

I am wondering what the difference is between 13 and 14 SEER? I realize that better efficiency would hopefully make our bill a little lower. The tech was unable to tell me, he thought that years ago the higher SEER were better quality also, but wasn't sure that is the case now. I do plan to call the office and get the model #s.

There is a price difference, but not huge considering Carrier is offering a rebate on the 14 SEER and they told us also a state rebate would apply to the 14 SEER, so it cuts the additional cost in half. However, still not sure we should spend the money.

FYI, he evaluated our house, measured sq ft, looked at all of the registers and intake (correct word?) and feels we need more registers in the living room and that the intake should be larger, so that is included in the price. The living room has a 2 story ceiling (Cape) and is never comfortable. That is where the thermostat is. FYI, we have 3 units - one for upstairs and one for a bonus room over the garage, this is the main floor.

So given the change from a 10 to a 13 SEER, and the other changes to the system, I'm assuming we will see a marked difference to begin with.

Anyone think it is worth it to go with 14 SEER over 13? Thanks.

Depends on your location.

[gryhnd]

Outside of Nashville. This is our 4th winter here, have seen temp as low as 4 degrees. Not quite the southern climate we were expecting. Many days where it is 35 or below IMO. We have no problem with the a/c part of it, our bills are much lower in the summer than they are in the winter.

[seatonheating]

Outside of Nashville. This is our 4th winter here, have seen temp as low as 4 degrees. Not quite the southern climate we were expecting. Many days where it is 35 or below IMO. We have no problem with the a/c part of it, our bills are much lower in the summer than they are in the winter.

Go with the highest SEER you can achieve with your current indoor unit(or are you changing it as well?).

If you are changing the indoor portion as well I would go with a dual stage 16 SEER heat pump that offers better comfort and humidity control.

[gryhnd]

No, there is no indoor portion to this unit. He did mention the higher level that is 2 stage, and said it handles humidity better, but I think it is out of our budget. Thanks.

[seatonheating]

No, there is no indoor portion to this unit. He did mention the higher level that is 2 stage, and said it handles humidity better, but I think it is out of our budget. Thanks.

Oh, must be a package unit....got it!

Definitely go with the 14 SEER unit. You may also want to ask him what the differences are in HSPF(heating efficiency).

[rgilmer99]

It will all depend on the model numbers he gives you. I work for a hvac company outside of Nashville as well, and we are a Factory Authorized Carrier dealer. In most cases for our state, it will make sense to go with the 14 seer. Now you most def. need to get your model numbers 1st and make sure they meet the state requirements. Some do and some don't. You would also have to get the matching indoor and outdoor piece or the state will throw it out. You should also check with your local energy provider to see if they have a rebate. I know here in Cumberland County, you can get up to a $500 rebate if you get a 14 seer or higher. If you find out the model and serial #s, I can tell you all of the rebates you can get in Tennessee.

[seatonheating]

It will all depend on the model numbers he gives you. I work for a hvac company outside of Nashville as well, and we are a Factory Authorized Carrier dealer. In most cases for our state, it will make sense to go with the 14 seer. Now you most def. need to get your model numbers 1st and make sure they meet the state requirements. Some do and some don't. You would also have to get the matching indoor and outdoor piece or the state will throw it out. You should also check with your local energy provider to see if they have a rebate. I know here in Cumberland County, you can get up to a $500 rebate if you get a 14 seer or higher. If you find out the model and serial #s, I can tell you all of the rebates you can get in Tennessee.

It's a package unit.

[gryhnd]

It will all depend on the model numbers he gives you. I work for a hvac company outside of Nashville as well, and we are a Factory Authorized Carrier dealer. In most cases for our state, it will make sense to go with the 14 seer. Now you most def. need to get your model numbers 1st and make sure they meet the state requirements. Some do and some don't. You would also have to get the matching indoor and outdoor piece or the state will throw it out. You should also check with your local energy provider to see if they have a rebate. I know here in Cumberland County, you can get up to a $500 rebate if you get a 14 seer or higher. If you find out the model and serial #s, I can tell you all of the rebates you can get in Tennessee.

Thanks very much. I just spoke to the co-owner. We are in Cheatham County.
13 SEER Model # 50EZA483TP and 14 SEER Model #50VTA483TP if I've gotten that correct. He said, for the 14 SEER only, there is currently a Carrier rebate, and a State govt rebate ($250) and a fed tax credit.

Sounds like we missed out on the much larger state rebate that ended in Dec., he said everyone was buying 14 SEER over 13 then and they had trouble getting them.

He said you will not see much difference in lower cost usage between the 13 and the 14 with the a/c, but you will see a little more with the heat pump. He said otherwise there is no difference. With the 2 rebates and the tax credit, it practically covers the cost difference. I had originally thought the tax credit was just a deduction off your income (like donating to charity) but he said it's actually $300 back.

So if that is definitely all money back, then the 14 SEER would be less than $200 more than the 13 SEER (our quote includes the other work they are doing also so not just the units alone). So I guess it would make sense to go with the 14 SEER? I figured I would double-check the state/fed websites to make sure re: the rebate/credit.

[seatonheating]

Thanks very much. I just spoke to the co-owner. We are in Cheatham County.
13 SEER Model # 50EZA483TP and 14 SEER Model #50VTA483TP if I've gotten that correct. He said, for the 14 SEER only, there is currently a Carrier rebate, and a State govt rebate ($250) and a fed tax credit.

Sounds like we missed out on the much larger state rebate that ended in Dec., he said everyone was buying 14 SEER over 13 then and they had trouble getting them.

He said you will not see much difference in lower cost usage between the 13 and the 14 with the a/c, but you will see a little more with the heat pump. He said otherwise there is no difference. With the 2 rebates and the tax credit, it practically covers the cost difference. I had originally thought the tax credit was just a deduction off your income (like donating to charity) but he said it's actually $300 back.

So if that is definitely all money back, then the 14 SEER would be less than $200 more than the 13 SEER (our quote includes the other work they are doing also so not just the units alone). So I guess it would make sense to go with the 14 SEER? I figured I would double-check the state/fed websites to make sure re: the rebate/credit.

Throw SEER out for now. What is the HSPF rating of each unit?

SEER is only an efficiency rating for cooling.

[rgilmer99]

Throw SEER out for now. What is the HSPF rating of each unit?

SEER is only an efficiency rating for cooling.

The HSPF for both units is 8.0

gyrhnd:

I would say the 14 seer will be your best bet. The 50EZA48 is 13.0 Seer, 11.5 EER, and 8.0 HSPF and has a $100 Carrier Rebate. The 50VTA48 is 14.5 Seer, 12.0 EER, and 8.0 HSPF. The 50VTA48 (14 Seer) will qualify for 10% tax credit up to $300, a state rebate of $250 and a Carrier rebate of $300. Overall it is the better equipment for the best value. Also, a tax credit is a rebate back as long as you owe in - if you get money back at the end of the year it doesn't do much good, but talk to your accountant to make sure. I hope this helps. Too bad you don't live on this side of Nashville lol.

[gryhnd]

The HSPF for both units is 8.0

gyrhnd:

I would say the 14 seer will be your best bet. The 50EZA48 is 13.0 Seer, 11.5 EER, and 8.0 HSPF and has a $100 Carrier Rebate. The 50VTA48 is 14.5 Seer, 12.0 EER, and 8.0 HSPF. The 50VTA48 (14 Seer) will qualify for 10% tax credit up to $300, a state rebate of $250 and a Carrier rebate of $300. Overall it is the better equipment for the best value. Also, a tax credit is a rebate back as long as you owe in - if you get money back at the end of the year it doesn't do much good, but talk to your accountant to make sure. I hope this helps. Too bad you don't live on this side of Nashville lol.

Thanks very much. Well I think we can forget about the tax credit then, that is a bummer, but we generally get a refund, I can check w/ our accountant but I guess we shouldn't base the cost of something at this price range on a $300 difference anyway.

BTW, the "temporary" fix they did to our system today is that it is running solely on the aux/electric part, so he said to estimate that being 50% more in cost. On a day like today, the heat pump would be working and we would not be in the aux mode, but I see next week it is dropping (Nashville 20 degrees Thurs and 4 overnight). In that case, our aux would be running anyway, I assume, so will it cost us more when it is below 35 degrees with aux only than it used to, or will it cost the same, and the difference is only what we are paying when aux would not normally be on?

[seatonheating]

The HSPF for both units is 8.0

gyrhnd:

I would say the 14 seer will be your best bet. The 50EZA48 is 13.0 Seer, 11.5 EER, and 8.0 HSPF and has a $100 Carrier Rebate. The 50VTA48 is 14.5 Seer, 12.0 EER, and 8.0 HSPF. The 50VTA48 (14 Seer) will qualify for 10% tax credit up to $300, a state rebate of $250 and a Carrier rebate of $300. Overall it is the better equipment for the best value. Also, a tax credit is a rebate back as long as you owe in - if you get money back at the end of the year it doesn't do much good, but talk to your accountant to make sure. I hope this helps. Too bad you don't live on this side of Nashville lol.

You are assuming those are the model numbers he is getting.

If they are indeed the model numbers he is getting, then that contractor is blowing smoke up his azz by telling him it will save him some money on the heating side, as the HSPF's are equal.

That is why I asked. Pizzes me off that contractors will just spout off things about savings without showing the consumer where and how.

[gryhnd]

You are assuming those are the model numbers he is getting.

If they are indeed the model numbers he is getting, then that contractor is blowing smoke up his azz by telling him it will save him some money on the heating side, as the HSPF's are equal.

That is why I asked. Pizzes me off that contractors will just spout off things about savings without showing the consumer where and how.

Sorry I might not have expressed it correctly - I think what he told me was nothing to do w/ savings between the 13 and the 14 - it was that he felt there was slightly more efficiency with the heat pump over the cooling portion - if that makes sense (?)

[seatonheating]

Sorry I might not have expressed it correctly - I think what he told me was nothing to do w/ savings between the 13 and the 14 - it was that he felt there was slightly more efficiency with the heat pump over the cooling portion - if that makes sense (?)

Higher HSPF(Heating): less energy usage in heating mode

Higher SEER(Cooling): less energy usage in cooling mode


When we are talking heat pumps we need to teach consumers to think of systems as more than this SEER or that SEER. SEER is only 1/2 of the system and HSPF is just as important if not more so in a lot of climates.

Ask your contractor how many heating/cooling degree days you have a year there along with how that correlates to energy efficiency. If he doesn't know the answer then I would tell him he needs to learn it.

[beenthere]

Sorry I might not have expressed it correctly - I think what he told me was nothing to do w/ savings between the 13 and the 14 - it was that he felt there was slightly more efficiency with the heat pump over the cooling portion - if that makes sense (?)

Find out which one has the higher BTU output at 17°F outdoor temp.

HSPF can be the same, but one still provide more BTUs from the heat pump and require the strip heaters less.

[davenet]

The HSPF for both units is 8.0

gyrhnd:

I would say the 14 seer will be your best bet. The 50EZA48 is 13.0 Seer, 11.5 EER, and 8.0 HSPF and has a $100 Carrier Rebate. The 50VTA48 is 14.5 Seer, 12.0 EER, and 8.0 HSPF. The 50VTA48 (14 Seer) will qualify for 10% tax credit up to $300, a state rebate of $250 and a Carrier rebate of $300. Overall it is the better equipment for the best value. Also, a tax credit is a rebate back as long as you owe in - if you get money back at the end of the year it doesn't do much good, but talk to your accountant to make sure. I hope this helps. Too bad you don't live on this side of Nashville lol.

This is incorrect. The Tax Credit itself is not refundable - meaning if you didn't work, didn't have withholding or income of any sorts, you could not just file a return and get the money back. However, if you had witholding of any amount from your checks, and it was more than your tax owed on adjusted gross income and you were getting a refund, the tax credit would then "cancel" some of your liability and you would be refunded more of what was already withheld.

Long story short: getting a refund does not mean you can't get the tax credit. You just need to owe tax for it to offset.