Don't start beating on this guy. Look at the line set for starters. Are you folks in Michigan not required to install earthquake straps on water heaters?
As far as leaving the install manual its required by code to leave them. I would not call this person a problem he/she seems to want to make sure they're job is installed correctly. My goodness how quick you all are to bash on someone. This site is for people to question and get advice which he is doing , I don't believe he has complained about the price he paid, I think he just wants to get the job completed and done to code. Give him a break and be helpful. Didn't your mothers tell you if you can't say something nice.....
Their are thread makers to beat on but not this guy.
Proud supporter of Springfield Millers and Oregon Ducks.
I really don't see why you think I'm being unreasonable. I just spoke to them and told them my concern based on my previous experience in our last home, and he said no problem he'd pull one. I'm not nitpicking little details here.
As far as the venting, if its done properly then I'm sure it won't be a problem passing inspection. You guys rant and rave about the importance of proper duct sizing, but you don't think that the vent sizing is important? The manufacturer has already done the math and determined what is acceptable. If you think a smaller than recommended size is fine, then why bother with 2" pvc. Why not run some 1/2" piping and save a few bucks.
The fact that I do my homework does not make me a problem customer. I think there are 3 types of customers. Educated, uneducated, and problem customers. Someone who knows nothing can still be a PIA. Ever hear the expression "An educated consumer is our best customer.", I think if you feel that way about your business, then you are probably a true professional. The fact that some of you would rather hide information from your customers only leads me to believe you have something to hide.
Have to admit that the phrase comes from a cheesy electronics store but you get my point.
BTW - I don't think earthquake straps are required for water heaters here.
jdew I would call you prudent not problematic. Its good to hear he is going to pull the permit. Make sure your there for the inspection and ask the inspector about your concerns over the venting and other issues, and have those installation instructions there for him/her to review.
No earthquake straps required in Michigan by the way.
I won't pick this installation apart based on photo's and we will let your inspector do the write-up, butttttttttt tell me what the heck is that metal flex running to? Please don't tell us its your dryer vent.
We pull any permits that are required before the job starts. I Wasn't implying that no permit should be pulled, just pointing out some potential problems of pulling and not pulling a permit. Never thought about the homeowners insurance thing if anything caught fire. If they are willing to pull the permit then you are fine. Inspectors don't catch everything though. The install may be safe and up to code, but what about airflow issues, temp rise, etc. I know our local inspector doesn't even look at these things. Install looks pretty clean though, not real wild about the way the lineset is run, looks like you could bang your head on it while walking through there We always leave the install manuals with the customer, they paid for the whole thing, including any documents and manuals. Oh yeah, didn't even see the metal flex, what's up with that, seems really long.
Not a bad looking job overall. Vent length is critical for proper operation. If they didn't want to pull a permit there is usually a reason.
In the pics it looks like the vent termination is next to the gas meter. In most cases you would need 4' minimum clearance. They are very strict about that in our area.
Also the condensate from the furnace looks to be tied in with the A/C drain which could flood the furnace if it ever plugs up. Just a few things that I noticed.
OP, my apologies for calling you problematic. Yes, you have a right to go behind your contractor.
As I stated earlier, are you certain you are reading the venting chart properly? There are usually different charts for different vent applications. Your application is a two pipe standard design. There may be a seperate chart for a a two pipe concentric termination design that would require larger piping. Please double check.
In my area I and most contractors will do anything to avoid having to deal with local inspectors, they are mostly idiots and they most certainly do notify inspectors of other departments about anythning that looks like it can be picked on. Their job is to create more government revenue so they can keep their job.
It appears that the venting has been run with a few unneccesary elbows to increase head room. Was that a request?
Not sure which flex duct you guys are talking about. One comes from the first floor (flex to semi-rigid) and turns out on the same wall the furnace is venting - this is for the dryer. The other semi-rigid duct in another picture is coming from a simple passive intake system and has one duct for combustion air going towards the floor, and another for fresh air going to return. Perhaps I should remove those now.
Robotec - there are 2 charts - one for what they call standard and alternate venting (difference being how the terminate outside I guess), and one for concentric. I am looking at the correct chart.
How am I "going behind my contractor", you make it sound like I am trying to screw him or something. I just want my basis covered in case anything ever happended, and second, if anybody was trying to be deceivious it's the contractor. He lied to me about getting a permit (he not only told me they would get a permit he talked about how they never have problems with inspections, and if there was a problem they would fix it) and then he didn't complete all the work he was contracted to do (balance duct work). But I paid him in full anyways after the installation since I had faith that they would ultimately live up to their word - which it appears they will.
BTW - I did not request anything specific for the installation except that the furnace be up off of the concrete - which they intended to do anyways using some rubberized pads.
Again, balancing in a home can only be done when specific complaints of room conditions are made. A system is installed with all air ducts wide open. Then, after operation, if there are issues, the air flow can be redirected from areas with too much conditioning to areas with too little. What exactly is it you want them to do as far as balancing?
When I was getting bids I explained to all the contractors that one of my problems was keeping the bedrooms as warm as the rest of the house and that I wondered if there was anything that could be done. This is the only contractor that even addressed it. He said that they would look at the return air and that they would balance the duct work. This was written in the contract so I am not just making this request after the fact.
When they installed the furnace the tech walked around the house with me and basically didn't have too much to say about the return air except that he recommended that I seal off the return in our foyer since it was unneeded and that should improve air flow through the return air in the bedrooms - fine no problem. He didn't say or do anything about balancing the ducts until I asked, and then he just said to call them later. If it's just a matter of trial and error adjustment then I could do that myself - infact I tried to do that with our old furnace and could improve it a little but still was not very good. I figured they would somehow be able to adjust it to ensure that air flow is appropriate for each room, or perhaps if it is trial and error that they would be more efficient at it than I am.
If there is a known issue with a certain area, most contractors will install either a permanent diverter or dampers in the ducts coming off of the supply plenum when the new system is installed. After that, it is a matter of trial and error adjusting.
RoBoTeq, I was glad to see some of your last posts it seemed
so out of charracter for you. That said this guy is right to demand a permit and check the venting. As most of you know improper venting can cause nuisance problem down the road.
Vern? I'm too lazy to check my code book but shouldn't a fused disconnect been installed adjacent to the furnace? We always install a ssu or ssy at the furnace. I think the code says within 25 ft....I could be wrong. Would the service panel if marked serve as a disconnect if within the required 25ft?
I will look it up as well.
I just think it's sloppy not to put a fused disconnect at the furnace as well as a service receptacle.
The H/O was right on this issue and I commend him for pushing his contractor to do the right thing.