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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    287

    Problem with Trane aux heat I think?

    Guys I am stumped on this one as for now! We are having ice problems again with this winter storm in LA. Anyways I got up this morning noticed my heat pump was having ice build up due to the weather. I went to t-stat & turned on my emer. Heat my 10 kw pulled in, I set t-stat for 76 degress to get my home as warm as possible before power goes out. Now here is when things seem to be wrong. My heat pack pulled in ran about 5 mins. & kicked back off & t-stat cut fan speed back to 50% & is blowing cold air now. I can bump up a few degrees & will come back on?

    Now I no that t-stat is set right but what are the causes for this. My t-stat should not be saying heat on without the heat pump on. It should bring my home to the set temp of 76 degrees & cycle off not do what it is doing. Any ideas?

    My system is XR 15 model 4twx030e1000a
    Air handler model 4tee3f039a1000a
    Heat pack bayhtr1410brkc
    T-stat trane 802 (honneywell)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,195
    adam

    how old is system?

    this is first winter heating season?

    location is Louisiana?

    at what outdoor temp is condenser icing up?

    difficult to say but symptoms suggest defrost function is not working correctly and that aux/emergency might not be wired up correctly either.

    I would call installing dealer to check system out.

    IMO

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Ocean Pines, MD
    Posts
    6,988
    Have the installer check the install setting on your t-stat. Sounds like that may be the problem.
    Also, your Model # doesn't make sense. 4TWX(50, 60) and 4TWX isn't an XR prefix.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    287
    sorry i meant 4TWR5030E1000A. Anyways i just had to post but after i went through my system and went over the problem in my head. I determined it was the t-stat, i am going fixing to replace and should correct the problem.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    14
    Adam,

    I know what the problem is, but I cannot tell you how to fix it on this site because there is no DIY allowed. I had this same problem with my system. I have a Trane 802 thermostat just like yours and a Trane XL13c heat pump with electric heat strips. I will tell you that the 802 thermostat has two stages of heat in the Emergency Heat mode. There are two terminals inside your thermostat that controls the 1st and 2nd stage Emergency Heat. My thermostat was missing a jumper wire between these two terminals. After my HVAC contractor install this jumper wire, my unit works perfect.

    After this jumper was installed, my unit now cycles off and on in the Emergency Heat as it should. The indoor blower cycles off and on, and the set temperature is maintained.

    You need to contact your HVAC person and have them fix this for you.

    I hope this was not giving too much information to be considered DIY. If it was, please accept my apology and it will never happen again.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    287
    Thanks for the help. I can do it but want, sale equipment for my company so tech will always be working on it because we installed together. I am going 2 ask 2 questions 1. Was the jumper suppose to be with the 802 t-stat fromthe factory? 2. Was the jumper from R to RC? Sorry 3 questions did the heat pump work fine but the emer. Heat did not work right? Thanks for the help sometimes when you have techs that no it all it is hard to convence them. Not bad mouthing my techs but they look at me & say he is a sales men but @ 1 time Many years ago I installed & serviced systems but don't do anymore!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    14
    Adam,


    1.) The jumper is not supplied from the factory with the 802 t-stat. (The reason that thermostat has two terminals for Emergency Heat, is so you can divide your electric heat strips to come on at different kw stages. If your heat strips are not divided into different stages, then you would need to add a jumper to connect both terminals together.)


    2.) I will quote what my 802 t-stat manual says about Operation in the Emergency Heat Mode:


    (FYI: I do not consider this information DIY since this manual was given to me by my HVAC contractor along with all of the other manuals when my house was finished.)


    "OPERATION IN THE EMERGENCY HEAT MODE:
    Once the comfort control is placed into the Emergency Heat mode, the compressor and auxiliary lockout features are turned off. In the Emergency heat mode, the compressor is locked out. The first stage of heat is whatever is connected to the X2 terminal. The second stage of heat is connected to the W1 terminal. Usually the emergency and auxiliary heat sources are electric strip heat in these cases."


    3.) Before the jumper was added, the Heat Pump mode worked fine. The Emergency Heat mode was acting exactly like you described yours.


    I hope this helps.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,085
    Quote Originally Posted by alineber View Post
    I will tell you that the 802 thermostat has two stages of heat in the Emergency Heat mode.
    No it doesn't. And hence his observations.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    No it doesn't. And hence his observations.
    Beenthere/Adam

    After reading Beenthere's comments I decided to look at my thermostat. The paper work that my HVAC contractor gave me says that I have an 802 T-stat. My thermostat is not an 802 T-stat but an 803 T-stat model: TCONT803AS32DAA.

    My HVAC guy had the white wire connected to the W1 terminal. When the thermostat was placed into the Emergency Heat mode, the indoor temp never reached the set point on the thermostat. The indoor blower would continue to blow at 50% after the heat strips cycled off. This setup would cause cold air to blow out of the vents after the heat strips cycled off. My HVAC guy came and connected a jumper wire from W1 to the X2 terminal. After he did this my Emergency Heat mode operated as follows: the indoor blower now cycles off and on with the heat strips. The set point is now being reached also. My Heat Pump mode still works fine also. The information I gave was given to me by my HVAC guy. I am now begining to have doubts about this guys knowledge, after reading Beenthere's comments and the paper work that gave the wrong information about my thermostat.

    Sorry for any confusion I might have caused.

    Beenthere,

    If my therostat wiring setup is wrong, please let me know so I can find another HVAC contractor to correct this. I would hate to find out that this wiring is wrong and caused damage in the future, because I had an HVAC guy who made a mistake.

    Thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    287
    Beenthere,

    Does that set up with the jumper from w1 to x2 sound right for the 802-803 t-stat? If so what does that jumper due keep the fan out after the call for emer. Heat ends? Yesterday was one of the few times that I every used the used emer. Heat. Also when emer. Heat is used by itself is it suppose to go 100% fan speed till it reachs the set point on t-stat? It is like comfort r is disaplied when in emer. Heat. An now that I am thinking about it when call for heat pump turns on the system it will run unit at 50% fan speed then aux. Heat will come on run 100% fan speed till the heat pump catches up then goes back to 80%-50% fan speed till the set point is reached. Is that right. This post just made me start thinking about the hole set up. Thanks for the help.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by alineber View Post
    ...............
    I would hate to find out that this wiring is wrong and caused damage in the future, because I had an HVAC guy who made a mistake.

    Thanks
    No need to worry.
    Not jumping the Em Heat & Aux Heat is a very common mistake probably made on 50% of T-stat installations. It has no ill effect at all on the system other than the symptoms you've noticed when using Em. Heat. Even before digital T-stats it was a common mistake. In the old days Heat Pumps had emergency heat relays but they are so seldomly used today that the jumper should come pre-installed on the t-stat. It could then be removed if a EH relay is used.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    287
    So what you are saying is to put the jumper from w1 to x2 & emer. Heat will work right when used correct? Does this affect Anything else with the system?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by adamwhatley View Post
    So what you are saying is to put the jumper from w1 to x2 & emer. Heat will work right when used correct? Does this affect Anything else with the system?
    There are too many different types of setup & t-stats to make a blanket statement like that plus this is not a DIY forum so I couldn't answer that question. I will tell you that if EM heat is wired or jumped correctly there is no effect at all on the system. The effect it should have is only when switched to Em Heat. That is where you notice the hot air blowing like it should until it reaches the set point & the system cycles off.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

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