what would you do? hvac install in own home

[deejer28]

Building in the next year trying to figure out the best system for our home we are building hoping to stay there for the duration. We will have a well insulated house ranch style with some passive solar built in to plans ,we are in a country setting with ample well water no ground loops due to trees everywhere. Cost not much an option as i can complete job at cost. We have no nat gas in neighbourhood. Also electricity in ontario is increasing fast smart meter regulates us power is half price between eleven pm and 7 am. We are in the middle of great lakes temps fairy cold in winter lowest approx -35 celsius. Input would be great as hvac contractors my bro father and self all came up with a different plan so i thought id throw it out to you guys for your Ideas thanks for your help... Re heat Ac and DHW. thanks alot

[superd77]

What would I do???

Move south!!!

[junkhound]

ample well water

Move this over to the pro section and I'll tell you some details of the WSHP I fabricated from old parts (plus new copeland scroll) for my own home - gets a measured cop of about 5.6 for 19C inlet wellwater at 9GPM, puts out 58,000 BTU/hr using a 4T nominal compressor.
Dont know what if any government or poco 'incentives' or promotions are in Ontario, know that biggest drawback to doing your own design is that in USA if not ARI rated no chance for the rebates.
WSHP is GREAT for nightime useage as you do not have to deal with the nightime colder air temps.

[SJProwler]

Just did a network install in the summer home of the CEO of the Morningstar Fund. Heating was all pex radiant floor, heated by ground source heat pump hot water.

[deejer28]

I have been thinking about a water source heat pump that heated and cooled a storage tank either buried in yard or in house very well insulated. The liquid in tank would be heated and cooled at night in off peak times and the chilled water or heated water would be circulated through in floor(No cold through floor) and air handler through house. open to all options at this point though.

[tlb]

you could go vertical with your ground loops or if you have good water supply open loop pump and dump geo way to go

[CraziFuzzy]

Yeah, if the trees are a problem for horizontal loops, then vertical ground loops may be an option. That said, i also see some advantage to the underground storage tank to minimize peak power usage, but ideally, you'd want the storage tank to be heating/chilled water, not the ground source water, feeding a fan coil unit.

So, vertical ground loops feeding a water to water heat pump. In the heating system, the storage tank would be hot water, in the cooling system, it's cold water. Use a temp probe in the tank to control the heat pump (hotter heating setpoint/colder cooling setpoint at night - more conservative setpoint during the day. Then space temp controlled by the fancoil itself.

[CraziFuzzy]

Yeah, if the trees are a problem for horizontal loops, then vertical ground loops may be an option. That said, i also see some advantage to the underground storage tank to minimize peak power usage, but ideally, you'd want the storage tank to be heating/chilled water, not the ground source water, feeding a fan coil unit.

So, vertical ground loops feeding a water to water heat pump. In the heating system, the storage tank would be hot water, in the cooling system, it's cold water. Use a temp probe in the tank to control the heat pump (hotter heating setpoint/colder cooling setpoint at night - more conservative setpoint during the day. Then space temp controlled by the fancoil itself.

Keep in mind, we're talking a BIG storage tank to be useful. Consider that to keep the heat pump in a reasonable range, you can really only expect about 10°F working range from the coldest you can expect to get the tank with the heat pump, to where it's too warm to effectively cool the house. Assuming a 20,000 gallon tank, and this 10°F range, that's the equivalent of running a 3.5 ton unit for 4 hours. (it'd be about the same capacity in the heating season as well). 20,000 gallons is 10x10x26 feet tank... BIG.

[tedkidd]

Just did a network install in the summer home of the CEO of the Morningstar Fund. Heating was all pex radiant floor, heated by ground source heat pump hot water.

Will you need cooling? Have you done the load calc? Have you checked the wind maps?

pump n dump turbocharged by solar hot water. There's a good thread on it here.

[deejer28]

havent done load calcs just starting with architect on size and layout. Will def need a/c it would be a sin to do hvac and not have the AC in own home. Also am planning on insulating very well. so I am thinking around 60k btu heating. Sounds interesting solar turbocharge ill look into that thanks. Up here there is a gov incentive if you install 10 kw solar collector on house they pay us 80.2 cents per kw produced every month. A typical 10 kw install roughly runs about 80000 bucks but it is a guaranteed contract for 20 years.

[tedkidd]

havent done load calcs just starting with architect on size and layout. Will def need a/c it would be a sin to do hvac and not have the AC in own home. Also am planning on insulating very well. so I am thinking around 60k btu heating. Sounds interesting solar turbocharge ill look into that thanks. Up here there is a gov incentive if you install 10 kw solar collector on house they pay us 80.2 cents per kw produced every month. A typical 10 kw install roughly runs about 80000 bucks but it is a guaranteed contract for 20 years.

If you air seal and insulate well, and have well designed overhangs and thermal mass in the home you may not need cooling. Might want to spend some time at Phil Malone's site: www.ourcoolhouse.com