VAV boxes with no controlers

[Ollies Heating]

I have a building thats about 25 years old and I don't think I have not found a problem. T-stat covers with nothing under them, VAV boxes disconnected with missing parts. Whats confusing to me is I have found about 7 boxes with the hi and low tubes cut short, no controller and the T-stat connected to the actuator and water valve with a tee. The damper arm is also turned upside down and reconnected to the actuator. I havent seen a pneumatic system in a long time (mostly residential over the years) and I have my hands full. Is this common practice? Any help is greatly appreceated.

[BJefferson1]

Sounds like someone rigged the system to operate for a customer that didnt want to pay for upgrades. I have never seen a system configured that way before. Good luck. Sounds like you have your hands full.

[snipe70e]

I have seen that and more.
Building owners want to save money and do not want to pay for someone who really knows how to fix equipment. I have seen and heard of several buildings where engineers have followed handymen.

When they get a hot call they will go to the space and open the damper, and if they get a cold call just close the damper.

In our building the previous owners crew put a VFS on the relief fan. They put the electrictal lines to and from the VFD in the same conduit. And because it was a tight fit they down sized the wires from #4 to
#6. And wondered why they has problems.

[Ollies Heating]

Bummer. I was hoping it was a new amazing upgrade to save money. The good thing???.... it's -14 deg F now and there is no insulation around the outside of the building. The screens on the inlet to the vav reheat hot water are plugged and I cant get the heat up in the building. I spent all day yesturday cleaning as many as I could but didn't make a dent. Now, if I close down my OA to protect the coils on my air handler and increase the RA I end up pulling -14 air through the gaps around the roof. Wish me luck today.

They just called me.... We lost water pressure, pipes froze. Is it to early for a beer?

[emcontrols]

Those old buildings are my favorite buildings. Job security thanks to our do it your selfers. A wise man told me that most people bring the system down to their understanding, and its our job to educate them to get building operating properly.

[Ollies Heating]

I will run with that.

[flange]

chaos equals cash....if you must, zap screw the dampers on the interior boxes half way closed to "push" more air to the exterior boxes. then get zome of that aerosol coil cleaner stuff and hit the reheats with it to do a quick cleaning for now. then close off most of your outside air and exhaust fans to kee pthe heat in the building. finally, jack up the reheat loop as high as you REASONABLY can do to get as much heat as you can. get the building stabilized prior to doing anything else.

[freonguy]

chaos equals cash....if you must, zap screw the dampers on the interior boxes half way closed to "push" more air to the exterior boxes. then get zome of that aerosol coil cleaner stuff and hit the reheats with it to do a quick cleaning for now. then close off most of your outside air and exhaust fans to kee pthe heat in the building. finally, jack up the reheat loop as high as you REASONABLY can do to get as much heat as you can. get the building stabilized prior to doing anything else.

+1 on what Flange says - - - -

'' How do you eat an elephant ?? One bite at a time. '' Remeber that when tackling this one - think out carefully each thing you are about to do - there will be a reaction ( from the occupants or the equipment ) to each thing you embark upon.

BTW - I have been in similar situations; MAKE SURE the cash flow contiunues as you get THEIR problems fixed. Nothing worse than going thru a bunch of grief and having them not pay. Why did the last HVAC company book out??

JMHO

Freonguy

[gsxrsquid]

This sounds like a building where they have in house "engineers". They don't know how things work as a system and have no real troubleshooting skills, but lots of thrid world ingenuity. When they really screw things up good they call in the outside vendor to make it all right.

[flange]

I had a hospital call me one time. it was middle of august, and they were getting ready to start sending patients elsewhere it was so hot inside the building. This was at ten pm. I mobilized four men, and found the place was indeed hot. vavs not working, chiller running like crap, air handlers putting out like eighty degree air. Sent one guy to the air compressors to find out what was going on. No air pressure in main leaving boiler room. sent another to look at the air handler to jack all the chilled water valves to half open, and the two of us went to the chiller. Found head pressure control valve stuck closed (ten inch butterfly). cut linkage off, and used a forty eight inch pipe wrench with cheater to open it. wired it open. got chiller running half decent, but clearly dirty condenser. found prv station on pneumatics blown relief leaking air all over. Fortunately I knew where all of this crap was since WE USED TO service it. apparently the new contractor who had the service for only two years didnt do a thing, or care to for that matter. once we got the chiller stabilized, the wind for the controls stabilized, and the air handlers running half decent, we started on the vavs. two months later we had something. this stuff happens a lot, its how you handle it that seperates the men from the boys.

[Control Man]

Just got back a large contract and its like the Hospital you noted , looks like the tech doing the service never looked at anything above EYE LEVEL and by the looks of things he was 4' Tall


Find VAV boxes um MODIFIED like OP mentioned , either no $ to fix it properly or no one knew how to fix it , they turn the box into a SUPPLY damper.

[Ollies Heating]

I cut down the OA and the frigid air started migrating in the holes and gaps the surround the roof overhang. It made it's way around the sparsley installed R-11 insulation. And a third of the 2nd floor is not conditioned. I plan to install about 9 controls today to start.

[gsxrsquid]

some people say job security but I say it is a PITA. Even a well maintain system needs maintenance. There is no excuse for equipment getting that messed up except cheap owners. And eventually they more than pay for the money they saved.

[OhioTech]

Sounds like you need a lot of pneumatic work. Tstats,changeover relays,actuators and volume controllers. If you don't know pneumatics....good luck.

[snipe70e]

This sounds like a building where they have in house "engineers". They don't know how things work as a system and have no real troubleshooting skills, but lots of thrid world ingenuity. When they really screw things up good they call in the outside vendor to make it all right.

Please don't call them engineers even as a joke. They are only unskilled handymen.
I have spent the last 5 years cleanning up behind a crew of handymen.

[gsxrsquid]

Hence the "" "" around engineers. I have a crew I inherited now. they were good housekeepers (I doubt it) so someone promoted them to engineers. Untrainable and mostly useless. Can't imagine how much damage they have done over the years. Too hot? turn off the break to the heat strips......
They don't even qualify as handymen in the real world

[Ollies Heating]

Sounds like you need a lot of pneumatic work. Tstats,changeover relays,actuators and volume controllers. If you don't know pneumatics....good luck.

So far it's turning around and the folks in the offices are more comfortable. This is a trial by fire though. The control board is a mess and next week it's time to deal with it.

[gsxrsquid]

Look at the bright side. the only way to go is UP and you will make lots of happy people in the building. I am moving to the same situation next month.
Challeneges and opportunities