Salesmen input on lon/bac

[d1nonly]

(Engineers need not respond, not a flame, just want a different approach to the lon/bac scene)

Any salesmen perspectives on Lon and/or Bacnet? (Where, how and why's on what sells.)

[amigo]

You do realize what forum you are posting your question on, right?

[d1nonly]

Si Amigo, yo sabe. Donde es "control" salesman? No esta aqui?

This is an interesting forum and has really caught my attention, because I've always wanted to get into controls. I actually dabble with it now, but not full time. Can they (the salesman) actually sell one over the merits of the other or are the usual politics involved?

[integrationx]

A good salesman can sell anything.

[sysint]

Originally posted by integrationx
A good salesman can sell anything.

Which is the damn problem most often.

[control_noob]

BACnet is dead, is it not? Other than product already in the field written to with this language, we aren't likely to see anything new right? The new flavor of the month is Lon... N2 lives on!

[integrationx]

[non aggressive] why is Bacnet dead?

The view from here is that BACnet is getting stronger.

Why did Schneider buy Andover (BACnet product) after the had already bought TAC (LON product)?
Why did Carrier buy Automated Logic (BACnet)?
Why did Honeywell (LON) buy Novar/Alerton (BACnet product)?
Why is Siemens/Staefa fast-tracking a BACnet product line?

Gee, I sound like a BACnet propaganda machine.

Personally, I have not used LON but I am pushing my boss to invest in some training/product. Until recently we sold Andover (which included their BACnet line). I see BACnet as being useful when you need to get data from a discrete 'system' e.g. a Trane chiller, a Daikin network, but the people who spend the money think BACnet will result in 'plug and play' controller replacement, which it won't.

[sysint]

Distribution. Customer base. Very little with control technology either way.

And, Carrier is anti-open. Have been awhile. CCN?
Schneider is buying not for tech.
Novar has a LON line so that doesn't make sense it's for tech.
Siemens/Staefa (if you mean Staefa) has the Tridium front.

What better way to lock people in than use BACnet? Or, BACnet and Tridium?

[jciengineer]

hey, integrationx

I don't have answers for all of your questions but I do have some.

Carrier bought automated logic just so they can be competive in the unit manufactuer controls market. Trane was killing everyone, the other big players, such as York, Carrier, McQuay, etc. had to do something.

Honeywell bought Andover/Novar because of them doing a lot of businees in Europe. Don't quote me but it was roughly a few billion dollars worth of sales in either 2003 or 2004. Honeywell had to get a piece of that pie.

I hope this helps clear some things up.

[ceng]

i heard lon has to use some special chips. Backnet is just a potocol, which is very open. I do see Backnet has more market share now. But we use Lon more THe reason is we deal with lots of building owners locked in with Lon.

[sysint]

Everyone uses chips. You don't have to use an Echelon "chip". Loytec makes there own Lonworks "chips".

I don't think the ilon100 RNI is using a chip.

Your expert opinion of BACnet supposeadly having a decent marketshare is based on what?

[osiyo]

Originally posted by d1nonly
(Engineers need not respond, not a flame, just want a different approach to the lon/bac scene)

Any salesmen perspectives on Lon and/or Bacnet? (Where, how and why's on what sells.)

Hmmm. I'm not a salesman. Not as a full time living, anyway. In the course of doing business, of course, from time to time if I see something that'd be useful to a particular customer I'll throw a pitch at him or her.

But I do know our salesmen. Personally, and we also talk in regular business meetings.

They don't SELL Lon, or BacNet ... or any propriety controls system. They sell a control system, which will meet a customer's perceived wants and needs. And which will work, exactly as we said it would and the customer expects it to. Which is reliable and easy to use.

And if it does not, we'll make good on it and make it work as it should. Not fake it, not juggle numbers or data on display panels, or make excuses ... it'll work just as we said it would. Or we eat the cost and manpower of making it do so.

Period.

[integrationx]

Originally posted by jciengineer
hey, integrationx

I don't have answers for all of your questions but I do have some.

Carrier bought automated logic just so they can be competive in the unit manufactuer controls market. Trane was killing everyone, the other big players, such as York, Carrier, McQuay, etc. had to do something.

Honeywell bought Andover/Novar because of them doing a lot of businees in Europe. Don't quote me but it was roughly a few billion dollars worth of sales in either 2003 or 2004. Honeywell had to get a piece of that pie.

I hope this helps clear some things up.

Well, apart from the fact it was Schneider that bought Andover, not Honeywell, you are essentially implying that these companies were bought because of their market success, which in turn implies that their BACnet products have been a market success.

[sysint]

It's highly unlikely that these companies are bought out because of their technology. It's their distribution and market penetration.

Look at Alerton. No exit stragedy for the ownership. Easy for H-well to pick them up. They probably had a vertical market they were interested in. Same thing with Novar. By contrast, look at Invensys. Nobody wanted them yet... I hear they are off the block now. All business, not tech.