york YK MAXE centrifugal chiller
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  1. #1
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    york YK MAXE centrifugal chiller

    this chiller is a 134a system and is going out on excess surge. what is causing this machine to surge. the 134a system don't have a purge unit, the pressures don't never get below atmospheric pressure. and its making a loud noise at the condenser (rumbling noise). not used to working on a 134a machine so anyone have any suggestions? usually i would say it would be air in the system but like i said it keeps pos. pressure during the off cycle so air cant enter.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertech0971 View Post
    this chiller is a 134a system and is going out on excess surge. what is causing this machine to surge. the 134a system don't have a purge unit, the pressures don't never get below atmospheric pressure. and its making a loud noise at the condenser (rumbling noise). not used to working on a 134a machine so anyone have any suggestions? usually i would say it would be air in the system but like i said it keeps pos. pressure during the off cycle so air cant enter.
    Have you got design flow on cond. water and evap. water? Is there a possibility there's a strainer stopped up? What's you're small temp. diff. on both evap. and cond.?

  3. #3
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    well the design is good it has worked for several years now. i dont remember what the small temp difference was now sense im home! lol. i do know that the refrigerant pressures looked pretty good on the optiview control center. i dont really think that its a water problem it wasn't running high head pressure or nothing. if this machine wasnt a 134a system i would swear that it has air in the refrigerant and needs to be purged! first time i have ever seen a 134a chiller like this! but i will double check water just to make sure something aint just crazy there.

  4. #4
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    Question

    A lot more information would come in handy here, what are your entering and leaving water temps (evap and cond), what are your approach temperatures, just for a few basics. There are a lot of things that can cause surge or stall on any machine but it's impossible to diagnose without some numbers.

  5. #5
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    You're going to have to get a lot more detailed than what you have. To ask what's causing a surge in a centrifugal chiller without giving a complete operating log is like asking everyone to hunt a needle in a haystack. You do say that design is good. So along with the operating log, it would help if you post the design data on the machine. We also need to know the machine setup.

    You also stated that it wasn't running high head pressure, but if it weren't a 134A machine you'd swear it had air in it. Air in a shell and tube condenser creates a high head condition no matter what type refrigerant you use. I believe it's safe to say that it may be in your best interest to get someone that's familiar with these type chillers to take a look at things.

  6. #6
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    Rapid dropping of the load?
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  7. #7
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    As stated you should be with someone who understands that piece of equipment who can assist with the troubleshooting and proper diagnostic of the Chiller a YK is a positive pressure machine , also you state its surging is it low side or high side surge all collected readings can assist with proper diagnostic and all Chiller spec's are in sales order screen , and a full M/N & S/N would also help out.
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  8. #8
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    level sensor/vane calliberation

    if water side ok on both condensor & evaporator ,make sure small temp diff on condensor with in the limit, & check vane /liquid level sensor & liquid level valve calliberation is ok & its works normally

  9. #9
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    The "rumbling" noise that you've stated sounds more like a "stall". Need more info though. Operating conditions? VSD/SSS/EMS? If it is a VSD with VGD(variable geometry diffuser) and there is a light load, it is probably within the previously mapped surge map and the VGD is "probing". With the optivew panel look under compressor/acc detail/surge map, you will probably see the vanes are almost completely shut with the drive slowed to the minimun hz. Just one scenario of many here. Operating log would be the best bet for info here

  10. #10
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    agree with klove need to know alot before giving an answer!!!! just as electrical diagrams are like road maps to your destination an approach and log reading will help us help you!!!

  11. #11
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    Oct 2010
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    York 56,aside from operating conditions,and experiance how can you tell the differance between a high head surge and a low load surge? is there a definate differance in sound? and would it be simalar between differant mfg's
    Thanks

  12. #12
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    A surge sounds the same what causes it is how you determine which one it is York has a snap shot of the last operating parameters when it faults out you should be able to figure that one out that will tell you which one is the culprite and how to go about fixing the problem.
    Arguing with your Boss is like wrestling with a pig in
    mud.
    After a while you realize that while you are getting
    dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.

    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it
    creative problem solving.

    25 years ago we had Bob Hope , Steve Jobs , and Johnny Cash today we have no Hope no Jobs and no Cash !
    I can fix broke but i can't fix stupid !

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    You're going to have to get a lot more detailed than what you have. To ask what's causing a surge in a centrifugal chiller without giving a complete operating log is like asking everyone to hunt a needle in a haystack. You do say that design is good. So along with the operating log, it would help if you post the design data on the machine. We also need to know the machine setup.

    You also stated that it wasn't running high head pressure, but if it weren't a 134A machine you'd swear it had air in it. Air in a shell and tube condenser creates a high head condition no matter what type refrigerant you use. I believe it's safe to say that it may be in your best interest to get someone that's familiar with these type chillers to take a look at things.

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