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  1. #105
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,253
    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    This is how it works. If you are living in Europe you are automatically "green" because everything there is expensive; electrical energy, gasoline, natural gas and heating fuel. So you as an European you drive car with engine little over 1 liter, you will almost kill your family member for leaving light on in an unoccupied room, you will know central air conditioning only from American movies, you will air dry your washed clothes instead using electric dryer.
    If you live in the USA you are used to comfortable living and most of you can effort these luxuries and you do not want to hear about this “green” BS. Simple as that.
    Not quite right.....everything there is not expensive. I just spent 3 weeks there and I spent less money on fresh fruit and vegs, cheese, and when I eat out I am paying the roughly the same as I do here when you include tax and tip. I am not talking about MeDees or KFC because that is not food.

    Fuel is more expensive but I found NO potholes and the roads were perfect. Also, the distances are less there so the net money out of peoples pockets for auto expenses is the the same or less than here. Paris is a special case as everything is more expensive there but if you don't have to drive for a living you really don't need a car as the transit is great.

    As for power costs, yes it is more, but not that much and they aren't as addicted to buying as much power consuming c**p as we are. There are some places in the US with higher costs than France or Germany. They never used to need AC because it seldom got as hot as as here. That has changed with global warming, look it up. Ductless splits are big business there now.

  2. #106
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,253
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Well, at least they are probably not junk!
    With the global nature of the way electronic parts are sourced, the individual components used to assemble the panels and inverter came from all over the place, but most of the parts and pieces used to build electronics come from the pacific rim. The good ones from Japan, or a Japanese company operating a factory in another Asian country, the cheap ones from China.
    That's is why Ontario states a minimum amount of Ontario content if you want a FIT contract. No point in doing it is there is no net benefit to the citizens. Manufacturing here increased.

  3. #107
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Well, at least they are probably not junk!
    With the global nature of the way electronic parts are sourced, the individual components used to assemble the panels and inverter came from all over the place, but most of the parts and pieces used to build electronics come from the pacific rim. The good ones from Japan, or a Japanese company operating a factory in another Asian country, the cheap ones from China.
    We had excellent contractors. The state inspector said it was one of the best installations he had seen. The panels are some of the more efficient for the money ones that were available at the time.

  4. #108
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by SolarMike View Post
    They never used to need AC because it seldom got as hot as as here. That has changed with global warming, look it up. Ductless splits are big business there now.
    If you believe that, I find it difficult to lend any credibility to anything you say.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  5. #109
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    83
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    The government shouldn't be spending money they have to borrow against our great grandchildrens future income, period.
    I agree the government should have a balanced budget, but you just can't cut off the governments roll cold turky without sever consequences. And frankly what is good for the goose it good for the gander.

    Any government program that puts an extra $360 a year in hot water energy savings after a few years pay back time adds money to the consumer which is what drives this economy. When we have a good economy we can get a balanced budget.

    The HVAC industry must have some pretty crummy lobbyiest because it is obvious to anyone that improving HVAC effciency will be 100 times better than investing in solar. The solar lobbiest can get a 30% tax credit and the HVAC gets 0% tax credit. Does that make sense to anyone? My local utility is offering $200 off new high effciency HVAC install. That's peanuts to what it should be.

    HVAC industry should lobby governement for credits for building hvac ducting in conditioined spaces. credits for extra insulation, credits for effcient upgrades, etc. long term savings are what are good for the people, not pet projects with short sighted goals. IMHO.

  6. #110
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    East of Lyndon's
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by newstudent View Post
    I agree the government should have a balanced budget, but you just can't cut off the governments roll cold turky without sever consequences. And frankly what is good for the goose it good for the gander.

    Any government program that puts an extra $360 a year in hot water energy savings after a few years pay back time adds money to the consumer which is what drives this economy. When we have a good economy we can get a balanced budget.

    The HVAC industry must have some pretty crummy lobbyiest because it is obvious to anyone that improving HVAC effciency will be 100 times better than investing in solar. The solar lobbiest can get a 30% tax credit and the HVAC gets 0% tax credit. Does that make sense to anyone? My local utility is offering $200 off new high effciency HVAC install. That's peanuts to what it should be.

    HVAC industry should lobby governement for credits for building hvac ducting in conditioined spaces. credits for extra insulation, credits for effcient upgrades, etc. long term savings are what are good for the people, not pet projects with short sighted goals. IMHO.
    Evidently your friend Algore isn't invested in the heating industry!!! And your spell checker is built in China!!
    If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

  7. #111
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,253
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    If you believe that, I find it difficult to lend any credibility to anything you say.
    Which part of my statement do you not believe?

    Ask anyone in Europe if their environment hasn't changed? Very few will deny it.

    and yes, cooling is not standard there because NO ONE has forced air.

  8. #112
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    83
    "And your spell checker is built in China!!"

    Reminds me about the whole USA olympic uniforms being NOT made in the USA. DUHH!!! go into any department store and look for USA made clothing.

    Politicians get upset over clothes used once every 4 years when they should be getting upset about the clotes we uuse everry dday.

    Reminds me of your commment bbecause you ttarget into some unimportant speeeelling when you should be concerned about the industry and edducating your customer.

    Instead you rattle some nonsense about al gore.

    Taking a sensible discussion into political stupidness.

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