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Thread: LON Question

  1. #40
    Nice work Collin, looks a lot like some union fitter work.

  2. #41
    Join Date
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    Except we are non union.
    But we do have medical/dental and the occasional company beer and chicken wing night.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Lonboy:

    I was refering to subnets, not the domain Id.

    Although LNS does manage subnet Ids, it is possible to manually control the the assignment of a subnet to a device.

    As I wrote earlier, LNS does not require the caller to specify the subnet when adding a device, as it will automatically assign a subnet to device if one is not specified.

    Bob Dolin, or Damian or whoever at Echelon should be able to verify this for you.

  4. #43
    Join Date
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    Collin- the guy won't shut up.

    He's the biggest blowhard on the site by far. Give him a little time. He will start thinking he has it all over some physicists and post his garbage elsewhere.

    His head isn't getting any smaller.

  5. #44
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    Sysint

    I know.
    I was challenging him to show some of his workmanship.

    Collin 1
    Eddy 0

  6. #45
    Join Date
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    Fat-E,
    I'll take your challenge. And I promise not to go too spaceship on you. However, I propose that you take your contest to a new thread or maybe ask for a new 'Trivia' discussion category - unless of couse you want to keep it LON. In any case, bring it on.
    lb
    A hundred million nodes - it's a LON story.

  7. #46
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    Keys,
    What tool would you use, besides nodeutil or hacking into the LNS database, to manually change a device's subnet ID?
    Fat-E, feel free to comment.
    lb
    A hundred million nodes - it's a LON story.

  8. #47
    Join Date
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    Okay....

    Sysint:

    I'm still trying to wrap my feeble mind around all this LON stuff, & I still don't think I'm grasping it. Maybe because I work primarily on resi equipment & not commercial. Also, it sounds eerily a lot like we're talking about computer networks & not anything to do with HVAC. Tell me: Why would I install a LON network on a resi system?

  9. #48
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    Re: Okay....

    Originally posted by special ed
    Sysint:

    I'm still trying to wrap my feeble mind around all this LON stuff, & I still don't think I'm grasping it. Maybe because I work primarily on resi equipment & not commercial. Also, it sounds eerily a lot like we're talking about computer networks & not anything to do with HVAC. Tell me: Why would I install a LON network on a resi system?
    Actually, they are speaking about computer networking. A DDC controller is essentially a computer. And one may talk to another, or to a "front end" PC via a network. Thus may exchange data that one has and another needs. Or someone at the front end machine can make changes and adjustments, troubleshoot, etc.

    Now, at this point in time, DDC equipment isn't really very useful for the average home. I have a system installed, but then I don't have to pay regular pricing for the stuff. In fact, didn't pay anything, except for my time and effort, a few relays, etc as I used old stuff that was gonna be thrown anyway as it'd been replaced with new stuff on this or that commercial job.

    If I had to pay full, regular prices, AND had to pay someone to design and install a system?

    I'd never do it.

    At this time, at current pricing, unless one has the knowledge and ability to do it yourself ... or yah really have a lot of money to burn and like to impress the peasants ... it's not really worthwhile. Except as a toy. (I happen to like toys, especially ones I get for free.)

    This will undoubtedly change in the future. But is a ways off.

    Now for commercial, industrial, and institutional installations? A whole different matter.

    I'm not as enamored with LON as SysInt is. However, I am all for some sort of standard. And while I know a fair amount about Lon and have put in a number of Lon systems (as well as BacNet and propriety), I don't know nearly as much as several others on this board, so I read their posts with interest.

    Hell, I'm always willing to learn.

    Now, somebody or other is gonna try to justify putting a lot of automation into a residencial installation. <Shrug> Seen it. Most places I know where it's been done, 2 years later it's disabled or ripped out. Too costly and complicated to maintain as versus the benefits gained for a simple house.

    Now, if someone figures out a simple, inexpensive remote control system, so an owner can do some very simple things, like lock forgotten doors, make sure coffee pot is turned off, turn down or turn up the heat, etc ... that'll probably sell. But to meet the simple and cheap requirement, I'm thinking that's a few years off into the future as yet.

    For the average person ... I don't need to hear about the exception, there are always exceptions. Make almost anything and yah can find a few suckers to buy it.

  10. #49
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    Well put Osiyo.
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
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  11. #50
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    Re: Okay....

    Originally posted by special ed
    Sysint:

    I'm still trying to wrap my feeble mind around all this LON stuff, & I still don't think I'm grasping it. Maybe because I work primarily on resi equipment & not commercial. Also, it sounds eerily a lot like we're talking about computer networks & not anything to do with HVAC. Tell me: Why would I install a LON network on a resi system?
    The cost is coming way down on LON systems. The neat thing about LON is that you don't necessarily need a computer, or you just need it one time to configure the devices. A computer is not necessary in the day to day operations of Lonworks.

    Samsung HomeVita is Lonworks.
    Merloni Appliances have Lonworks. (powerline -PLT)
    (I'm missing many)
    See Mini-EVK at http://www.echelon.com

    Special... You should read "about Lonworks" at http://www.grahamcontrols.com It is a nice explanation of Lonworks and what makes it a good communication choice for devices.

    Why install LON in residential? - At the moment unless it's a larger place, hold off. The new Mini-EVK development tool (I think it's $350) will have everyone making LON light switches, doors, thermostats, etc... (home type devices) cheap. You could have multiple manufacturers light switches and not worry whether or not you can group them together. Or easily turn on the lights when there is a break-in to the place. Or, like in Italy where power is expensive.... turn off the dishwasher during peak or get warning or notification of it's failure.

    Think about it.. the device could be anything, communicate on PLT, twisted wire, RF, whatever and talk to the other devices.

    I would also read up on Moore's law or other books on the benefits of networking.

    ..feeble mind? Right. You are smart enough to ask about it in the first place. All you need is a little research.




  12. #51
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    Mar 2005
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    I don't think that offering a development tool at $350 instead of $3500 is going to make much difference in the LonWorks world.

    In the overall cost of developing a LonWorks device, the cost of the software development tool is only a small part of developing a device, when you compare it to :

    - the cost of the hardware design and PCB layout
    - UL certification
    - the software development
    - etc.

    Once this is all paid for ("the fixed cost"), the price to build the product is going to be real gating factor in the price that it can be offered to a customer.

    Right now, the cost of the FT-10 transceiver and Neuron (even in the combo "Smart Transceiver" marketing ploy) is going to be the gating factor.


  13. #52
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    - the cost of the hardware design and PCB layout
    'cmon big deal on a simple I/O device. (had it done)

    - UL certification
    maybe certify with a different organization.

    - the software development
    Again, for a lightswitch?

    - etc.
    Well, I guess everyone complaining about the cost of a chip is completely full of crap as the "chip" doesn't really cost anything, and the development tool also costs next to nothing.

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