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  1. #14

    Mario

    I read your note, I 'm HVAC technitian too, but just with two years of experience, need to learn a lot ,
    What's the loop in the pipes for water heaters?
    thank you for your time
    Mario

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lancaster county PA.
    Posts
    34

    Smile Last attempt to teach old dogs.....

    Final reply to this thread unless it becomes productive or someone really needs help. See prior replies to understand.
    #1. My calculations for elect. use by the circulator are correct.
    #2. I heat the water with propane as previously stated, not electric.
    #3. Yes, there is some standby loss in the water lines just like there is standby loss from the water heater itself. The R value of 1/2" armaflex brand pipe insulation is 2.5 and as previously stated, I double insulated all the hot water lines. This gives an R value of 5 not .5 as you stated.
    So, even if I use Junkhound's figures for my cost in losses, which was about $12.85/year, if I understood all of his figures. Compare that to heating all of the water that goes down the drain while waiting at the faucet for hot water to arrive. In the prior threads example, that was 14600 gallons/year. Plus pumping and softening costs and you see how a continuous loop that is properly installed and controlled is a great benefit cost wise and it is convenient too.
    As for alternate ways to heat water that are less expensive than gas or electric, that is a whole new subject. I currently have a PV solar system that totally supplies all of our electric needs and puts excess electric back into the grid. We are planning to use some of our excess electric to heat more of our home or our water when our existing systems wear out.
    Enjoy the day, Brian.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    257

    GE Heat Pump

    I've had my GE heat pump water heater since November 2010 and I love it. I also have a KWH meter on it and previously on the electric resistance water heater.

    I love this unit and have it set for heat pump only. It has saved us a lot of money. It also dehumidifies and cools the basement in the summer although not much. I never could notice heat loss in the area it's in.

    I looked into the circulating pump and found that it voided the warranty of my manibloc system so I didn’t install it. I did plan on using a on demand switch at the tap which upon pushing the button would circulate the water for 2 minutes and shut off on it’s own. This was a good idea because it would eliminate the timer and the possibility of the unit being left on.

    Water costs money but a friend had used a circulator and complained that his propane water heater was always on and off when water wasn’t being used. I guess his was on all the time.

    Unless you insulate really well I think the water loss would cost less but everyone’s system is different. We use home runs for all the water lines and used smaller lines so that less was wasted. I tried to solve the problem but no one could help and so I did what I could. I also insulated hot water lines so that those washing hands wouldn’t have to wait. I installed a cistern system to offset water use and that was a great idea since our water cost at over 1 cent a gallon is fairly expensive.
    John

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteamish63 View Post
    A properly insulated, properly controlled domestic hot water circulation loop will save you money in energy and in water savings. Here is how. The main hot water line that is part of the loop plus the return line from the farthest faucets need to be well insulated. The loop circulator should either be on a timer or controlled by a return temp sensor. In my personal home I have both. My gas bill for water heating dropped by 1/3 and my wasted water down the drain waiting for hot water to arrive went to nothing. Most people who say hot water loops waste energy have not thought through the process. We used to wait 60 seconds for hot water to arrive at our farthest faucets from our water heater. This was 60 seconds worth of water going down the drain while 60 seconds worth of cold water flowed into the water heater to replace the water going down the drain. The water heater then has to heat all this cold water up to the set temp. Now we open the faucet and in 1 second, hot water is coming out. No wasted water, no wasted heat. I actually double insulated my water lines, using 5/8 id, 3/8 wall pipe insulation and then put 1 3/8 id, 3/8 wall over that. I love saving money and now we don't have to wait for hot water. Its a win/win situation.
    Now, about your situation. Pipe your return line from your loop into the preheat tank from the geothermal rather than the heat pump water heater. That way you will not "mess" with the water heaters design parameters. I have been an HVAC service tech for 23 years and have piped many desuperheater preheat tanks this way. Be sure to include a flow check on the loop so no water can flow from the preheat tank directly to the faucets.
    Good luck with the project.
    I missed this response, will look into to routing you suggest , thank you.
    (with tapatalk it showed me threads I participated in and I just re read this 3 year old thread, finding some point I missed)


    Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP

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