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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    West TN
    Posts
    983
    If you are doing alot of heavy duty cooking.
    I'd look into a vent a hood with its own fresh air system.

    Outside air comes in along the front of the hood.
    Blows across from front to back.
    The exhaust air is pulled through grease filters at the
    back of the hood.

    This is what commercial kitchens have.


    http://www.haltoncompany.com/solutio...s_frameset.htm


    I tried my best to find some more links...
    Thats the best I can do for now.
    I can't seem to find anyone that shows some good picks
    of what I'm talking about.
    Extend to others the grace that God has given you.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Pacific Coast of Canada
    Posts
    4,008

    The #1 reason for make up air

    Is if you have a naturally drafted B vent appliance like a water heater or open gas fireplace. The kitchen fan has the ability to backdraft carbon monoxide.
    Our codes are pretty specific and I deal with make up air two ways. We MUST match the make up air to the exhaust, so in your case I would install a 600 cfm in-line fan and tie it into the exhaust control. If the air is ducted directly into the kitchen then we install an electric heater as Carnak said to temper the air.
    We are doing another job where we are dumping the make-up air into a pantry, and as such is considered an "unoccupied area" and therefore does not need the air to be tempered. We must, however, install transfer grills to allow the air to move from the pantry into the kitchen which is adjacent.
    Check local codes.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    556
    It is common practice around here to size make up air for a kitchen hood at approx. 80% of the exhaust air. I would suggest first to find a hood that has a make up air connection and install the supply fan in the attic where it is accessible and duct to the hood. If you can't find a hood like that duct to a diffuser close to the range and direct it towards the stove. This will probably blow on your neck while cooking though.

    I wouldn't spend too much energy preconditioning the air since most of it will go straight back outside through the hood, and the range will be providing some heat while it is on. Of course, I'm not going to see 0 degrees either. You might want to consider a small electric heater in the supply system. make sure that the supply fan also has a backdraft damper so inside air doesn't escape while the fan is off. If the kitchen is closed off make sure that there is a path for the remainder of the makeup air to get to the kitchen like a door undercut or a door grille.

    Got a link to the hood you plan on using?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    11
    Collin - very interesting idea about dumping unconditioned make-up into the pantry. Our plan calls for an approx. 50 sqft walk-in pantry next to the kitchen. We've been thinking that a lower temperature in there would be desirable, anyway, but I wonder if it would get too warm during the summer?

    dhanna - we've thought about some of these commercial solutions, the only reason we've shyed away is because, well, they look commercial. Dear Wife has an aesthetic she's going for, and that trumps anything I want to do ;-).

    Here's the link to the hood we were going to buy:
    http://www.ventahood.com/hoodmodels.jsp?id=12
    The 42" 600CFM model.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    556
    The thing that I don't like about making up ar through the pantry is that it will mix with the inside air before it goes outside and increase your energy costs.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Originally posted by rstagg
    Collin - very interesting idea about dumping unconditioned make-up into the pantry. Our plan calls for an approx. 50 sqft walk-in pantry next to the kitchen. We've been thinking that a lower temperature in there would be desirable, anyway, but I wonder if it would get too warm during the summer?

    dhanna - we've thought about some of these commercial solutions, the only reason we've shyed away is because, well, they look commercial. Dear Wife has an aesthetic she's going for, and that trumps anything I want to do ;-).

    Here's the link to the hood we were going to buy:
    http://www.ventahood.com/hoodmodels.jsp?id=12
    The 42" 600CFM model.
    It is possible that Collin, although in Canada could have slightly milder temperatures than you would face in Ohio.

    You would not want to dump untempered air where you had a risk of items freezing. A smaller elctric coil could temper air to be above freezing only.

    Commerical hoods may have 80 to 90% make-up systems built into them, and the remaining air is often brought in by additional means (other than just the make up plenums built into hoods) to the kitchen and restaurant.


    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    556
    I don't think you are going to going to get 600cfm either. you are probably going to get between 480 and 540 CFM. the manufacturer is just saying that their cfms are somehow better than the competitions. See the footnote on the link you gave us and look for their explanation of equivalent CFM apparently it's on page 19 of the literature.

    look at the chart here for the CFM ratings at a sp of .3 and .2 That is where you are probably going to be operating at.

    http://www.ventahood.com/images/docs...18xr18spec.pdf

    Make sure that they use a 8" duct instead of the standard 7" duct or you will see even less air.



  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,260
    2,200' X 9' - 600 cfm = 2 air changes per hour. Its good they usually deliver 50% of stated flow. Suggest a damper to reduce the flow to half and and then operate on "low speed" as much as possible. This is 3X normal kitchen hood exhaust. 300 cfm of air is 20,000 btus/hour of heat and a 13,000 btus of mostly latent cooling. One hour of exhaust @ 300 cfm will make your home have the same dew point as outside. During the wet cool time of the year will make your refrigerator sweat on the outside. Mold will grow in your basement certain times of the year. A ventilating dehumidifier can be setup to bring in 300 cfm of make-up air whenever the exhaust hood operates. It will filter, dehumidify when needed and distribute the air through out the heating/cooling ducts. You may also operate the air handler when the exhaust is operated. In addition the ventilating dehu will provide year around trickle ventilation and dehumidification when the hood is not used. The Therma-Stor's Ultra-Aire 150H is one of the units that will do this.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    I live in a year round cooling environment now, outdoor dewpoint about 80F for six months of the year.

    You have old homes here with no air conditioning whatsoever. They have the jalhousie windows, RV style, that they open for a cross breeze.

    Never seen a refigerator sweat on the outside yet in an unconditioned home here.

    Had my fridge going on a generator for a month after a hurricane, only got a window shaker going in the last week of this period.

    It was a side by side style fridge/freezer and had all temperature settings turned down for coldest temperatures possible. Freezer was functioning as an ice making plant.

    House was hovering around 86F and 85% RH, and my fridge/freezer did not sweat.

    I keep my place about 80F, just 'shot' the fridge with my raytek, freezer side about 76.5, fridge side about 78.5. So would say worst case scenario is exterior temperature about 3.5 degrees colder than the room air.

    Kitchen would tend to be the warmest room in house especially when cooking. So even assuming 75F in kitchen, freezer could be 71.5F. Unless this make up air blasted directly on the freezer, I do not see it sweating.

    De-Humidifers have their use, but I think scare tatics are un-called for.




    [Edited by Carnak on 04-07-2005 at 11:43 PM]
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    11
    teddy bear - it's a bit more volume than you stated. 2200sqft x 9' is just the insulates/conditioned basement; there's a vaulted ceiling in the 2200 sqft main floor. I agree, though, that even if we don't have sweat and mold, humidity is a concern. An ERV like the recoupAerator mentioned elsewhere would be excellent for this, methinks.


    The hood does, by the way, have a half-speed setting, and I suspect we'll use that quite a bit. But often times we'll certainly need it all. As I said before, this kitchen won't have a typical usage pattern.

    Has anyone out there installed one of these systems? I'm getting great data here from some sharp pro's, but I get the feeling that no one's ever had to compensate for these high-flow hoods on an actual job? It kind of amazes me - there are *tons* of manufactures of these commercial-style, house-emptying suckers out there; none of the residential approved models that I know of provide built-in make-up. I wonder if that many people remodel or build and install these with no thought to health or economy. Or maybe there really are that many trophy kitchens.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    108
    Here in NC you cannot install commercial cooking equipment in a residence the Dept. of Insurance will not insure a house with it so when you try to get a cert. of occupation to move in inspection dept. will fail it and there you go a house all done and not a chance to move in.

    When I go to classes to keep my license current the example that they use is just like your dilima presents.
    They say that we should tell the home owner that commercial equipment is not for residences.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    556
    He isn't going to use commercial equipment. He is just getting a large hood that will cover a 6 burner stove and he upgraded the fan. I'm guessing that make up air really isn't required. If it was all that important the manufacturer would have said something about it. They don't even sell supply fans, the accesories, or have a hood that has a makeup air connection. I bet if you asked the manufacturer they will say make up air is provided through simple infiltration.

    He is probably going to run it at half speed most of the time, and when he does run it on high it will only be for a short period. He just needs to keep in mind that it will suck the air out of his house in a couple hours and not leave it running for too long.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,513
    rstagg

    just a thought
    you install a decorative grille that kinda matches your decor on the outside wall. put it at the bottom edge off the hood with a motorized damper to open when the fan is on
    letting make up air in at that point and drawing it up with the heat and smoke from the stove. this way the hood draws only from the stove and grille and not the rest of the house. two 14 by 4 grilles to the outside i am not sure but think may be enough to do it.

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