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  1. #79
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Westcoast refer man,

    A simple questions deserves a simple answer my friend……it can’t!

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  2. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    159
    Dear John,

    A simple answer to this question hasn't cleared up the controversy. Also, a simple answer may not lead to any greater understanding of how things really work.

  3. #81
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560

    I love a good debate.......

    Dear Westcoast refer man,

    Regarding your previous posted comments:

    “A simple answer to this question hasn't cleared up the controversy. Also, a simple answer may not lead to any greater understanding of how things really work.’

    The original question posted by Hsteiner on page one of this thread has already been answered I think to everyone’s satisfaction. What’s left of this thread, that’s being posted, is simply clarification of previous stated posts from one individual and another individual that is questioning it.

    The detailed analysis of a typical air conditioning system operating with no other deficiencies or problems, other than an overcharge of refrigerant, has been debated extensively, including the use of either a capillary tube or TXV as a metering device. The overall consensus of everyone here is simply this statement:

    “In other words, give me an example of a normal air conditioning operating system with no other operating deficiencies that would cause an ice up with overcharge as a sole source of the problem, and I would stand corrected.”

    Reprinted as it appears on page six of this thread. I think everyone here who posted and/or who read this thread either learned something new, or at least had their basic refrigeration principles reinforced.

    But, please comment on my above comments because I love a good debate of refrigeration principles or operation…………………………….

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton



  4. #82
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Westcoast refer man,

    My posted comment of:

    “A simple question deserves a simple answer my friend……it can’t!”

    was simply an answer to your previous posted question of:

    “If so, how could a higher saturated temperature lead to freezing?”

    Do you see now?

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

  5. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,195

    Dear Mr. Dalton -

    You:

    "I think everyone here who posted and/or who read this thread either learned something new, or at least had their basic refrigeration principles reinforced."
    =======
    I do not think either point is true as applies to me. <g>

    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  6. #84
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear HVAC Wizard aka Poodle Head Mikey,

    Regarding your previous re-post:

    "I think everyone here who posted and/or who read this thread either learned something new, or at least had their basic refrigeration principles reinforced."

    I do not think either point is true as applies to me. <g>’

    Based upon my statement, I’m assuming your saying that you know about all the refrigeration operations, principles, and their applied sequence of operation, as stated throughout this thread, and that your HVAC knowledge is so strong, and deeply rooted, that this thread was a complete waste of time for you, you learned nothing new, and further more that all the above concepts are totally known to you. My friend, you just might be “The HVAC Wizard”.

    So as to prove me wrong my wizard friend, answer me this question so I too can marvel at your abilities:

    Which weights more, a pound of feathers, or a pound of gold? Be careful wizard, this question is not as easy as it first appears to be…………….

    Patiently waiting to be amazed my wizard friend…………….

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton



  7. #85
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear HVAC Wizard aka Poodle Head Mikey,

    Another question comes to mind my wizard friend:

    How long have you been in the HVAC/R field may I ask?

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

  8. #86
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear HVAC Wizard aka Poodle Head Mikey,

    After checking your previous posts on other threads I can see you’ve been in the HVAC/R trade since the 1970s. Your posts are very concise, detailed, mostly to the point, and full of basic HVAC principles and operations. You appear to have a considerable amount of knowledge in the trade and are free to give it out.

    I was a little stumbled in your post of August 2004 in which you explain that you just “recently” discovered that your old capacitor checker was lying to you, since you didn’t regularly use a digital capacity checker to check actual mfd or uf readings. But there again, you seem to learn something, this is a very good thing since I always say to the service technicians at my company that:

    “The day you stop learning is the day you become a fool.”

    I’m glad to see your not a fool, by the way, you’ve yet to answer mt question my wizard friend………………

    Most Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  9. #87
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear HVAC Wizard aka Poodle Head Mikey,

    Well its 6:47 PM here in Los Angeles and I have to go home to take my wife out to dinner, or should I say, I “get” to take my wife out to dinner. I’ll check this thread tomorrow morning when I get back into the office at 6:00 AM for your answer my wizard friend.

    I really learn a lot when I get to discuss, or debate HVAC subjects with fellow service technicians who obviously posies great amounts of HVAC/R knowledge and wisdom. I truly look forward to our future conversations in this thread or forum.

    Good night my friend.

    Most Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

  10. #88
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,195

    John, I am no wizard

    John,

    Wizard? Far from it. At least in opinion. I can only wish that it were even half true. What so often frustrates me is that, scary as this is to me, I am usually the smartest guy I know. And I say that with the greatest sadness.

    Knowing myself as I do: I am hardly a wizard; barely competent would be closer to the Truth, it just terrifies me that it is apparently this way. I almost always learn at least something every day. But Life is so damned short and the need to know so nearly infnite. I just wish there were some shortcut.

    What I would like more than almost anything is to know at least one guy who Really knows everything; someone that I could always go to and ask: What about this?

    For refrigeration I used to know that guy. His name was Perley Barker. And although he lived into his 90's, he is gone now.

    Oh; let me think here - "A pound's a pound the world around." Is that how it goes? <g>

    I's sorry - I've forgotten the other question already. I'll have to go back and see it again.

    I sometimes wonder if it isn't the ultimate horror of the truely competent when they are dying - so much work, so much accumulated knowing; no matter how self-satisfying, still; gone for nothing in the end.

    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  11. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario. Canada
    Posts
    93
    I'll answer it! A pound is a pound. Its volume is different for the both objects.
    Just be careful of the wind, otherwise the gold will win!

  12. #90
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,195

    How long you ask ?

    John,

    I believe that the path is very long, and so must be started early and kept at diligently. And as soon as walking is mastered, big steps are best if the end is ever to be sighted.

    As you may know; Michaelangelo's wet nurce was the wife of stone cutter. As a baby he grew up playing in the stone cutter's workshop; playing with stone chips and pieces, stone cutting tools, wondering, and asking and learning: watching a master stone cutter's hands at work with the stone. As he grew no doubt he helped in the shop; felt the stone for himself. And in the end, arguably perhaps, he eventually went farther than anyone else on that particular path. At least I think that we can easily agree: very far.

    When I was a small child I vividly remember being amazed; astonished even, that a machine, which was almost all warm, made the inside of the refrigerator cold. Produced ice in fact. How could that be? I also remember that no one could answer my questions. Most still can't. <g>

    So? How long? I am sure that some would say: Too Long. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  13. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,283
    When I was a small child I vividly remember being amazed; astonished even, that a machine, which was almost all warm, made the inside of the refrigerator cold. Produced ice in fact. How could that be? I also remember that no one could answer my questions. Most still can't. <g>
    I remember as a child playing out in the backyard and wandering over to our house's condensing unit and putting my hand on a bare spot in the big copper line coming out of the ground and it was sweaty and cold. I thought somehow this machine was "making cold" and sending it into the house through that sweaty pipe. I wanted to know how it did that.

    One really hot day that machine stopped working and my mother called out a man to look at it. I started asking him lots of questions about how it worked. He was a patient man, up in years, and seemed to enjoy my curiosity. He got our machine going again and, since he worked for himself, he took me inside our house as it cooled down and began explaining to me how that machine actually worked, using drawings and big words like "refrigerant", "expansion valve", "condenser", etc. I was entranced.

    When he finally told me that the sweaty pipe wasn't actually putting cold into the house but rather carrying heat out of the house, I was blown away. "Impossible!" I said. "That pipe is colder than the house, how can it be taking the heat in the house and dumping it out here?" He then took me over to our stove, had me fill up a pan with water, light a fire under it, and bring it to a boil. He once again took me through basic refrigeration theory. This time, it sunk in. I think I was about twelve.

    Been hooked ever since.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

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