Icing up due to overcharge?

[Andy Schoen]

Mmmm... I see where we have a cgi problem on our site. A direct link to the file: http://www.sporlan.com/UnitConv14.zip

[Wild Leg]

Originally posted by Carnak
Is Paul Harvey still alive?

Now THAT's a good question. LOL

[Shophound]

Originally posted by john dalton
Dear Shophound,

Nice to see you here at this thread, I know our paths have crossed on other threads. Just checked out your website, nice pictures, and nice life it would appear. I’m guessing from the limited information I saw that you either work for a hospital, or health care facility in Texas. Twelve and all ready interested in the HVAC/R field, that’s a great story friend.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton

John,

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed my site.

The man who mentored me in those early days and into my teens was named WW Pardue. He was a member of RSES and encouraged me to join once I entered the trade. He was in his 70's when I first met him and kept at it until his early nineties when his health wouldn't let him go any further. He worked out of an old station wagon. Looking back on his work now, he seemed more cut out for market work than residential a/c as he was a controls nut, installing stuff on our system that most residential units at the time never had.
He loved NASA and the Apollo program and seldom missed a launch. He would sometimes drop by our house even when our a/c didn't need any attention just so he could talk and leave me some Apollo souvenirs, which I wish I still had. He also loved to talk politics with my dad, since dad was a political cartoonist.

Later, when I did get employment in the trade, I once mentioned Pardue's name while in a supply house. Laughter and scorn followed...I guess the feeling was the old guy was a bit off his rocker and should retire. Perhaps because he worked out of a station wagon, it sent up the "hack" flag. And that he was never satisfied with the status quo way of doing things so common in the trade. He probably drew similar glances as perhaps airman1 might when he walks into a supply house and asks for a balanced port expansion valve to put on a residential system.

But I'll never forget the time Pardue took to mentor me, and it's a favor I wish to return on someone entering the trade and needs some decent guidance.
My coworkers at the time of the Pardue bashing also scoffed the worth of RSES. Only later did I come around to understand how wrong they were. Mark Beiser, a member on this board, got a knowing chuckle out of me the other day when I first read his new sig line, "Join RSES or die!"

Sorry, folks, if this was a bit off-topic. To make it more on topic I suppose I could close by saying that Pardue really understood refrigeration theory and application. If we had more techs like him out in the field mentoring, perhaps a discussion of whether an overcharge of refrigerant in and of itself in an air conditioning system with all other parameters normal would cause an evap coil to freeze up would be considerably shorter.

That, and "Join RSES or die!"

[john dalton]

Dear Shop hound,

Regarding your previous post:

“My coworkers at the time of the Pardue bashing also scoffed the worth of RSES. Only later did I come around to understand how wrong they were. Mark Beiser, a member on this board, got a knowing chuckle out of me the other day when I first read his new sig line, "Join RSES or die…”

I’ve been a member of RSES for the last 15 years, earned a CM, am studying for my CMS in heat pumps, and my only regret is not joining much earlier. Service technicians that laugh at RSES members are either “some” union people, and other service technicians that have either arrived at their total knowledge point and are perfect in their execution of their craft, or people that simply don’t know any better, a sad lot just the same.


”Sorry, folks, if this was a bit off-topic. To make it more on topic I suppose I could close by saying that Pardue really understood refrigeration theory and application. If we had more techs like him out in the field mentoring, perhaps a discussion of whether an overcharge of refrigerant in and of itself in an air conditioning system with all other parameters normal would cause an evap coil to freeze up would be considerably shorter.

Sorry, I got a bit confused with your words you are saying, I hope that you are saying that you CAN NOT ice a system up with a simple overcharge of an air conditioning system. Right?

In closing, off topic or not, our former mentors should be inspiration for our wanting, and needing to spread our HVAC knowledge to new service technicians at this forum and beyond.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton

[Shophound]

Sorry, I got a bit confused with your words you are saying, I hope that you are saying that you CAN NOT ice a system up with a simple overcharge of an air conditioning system. Right?

Of course. <g> Going back to read my own words, I realized I omitted "or not" as the balance to the word "whether". My grammatical bad. Hope NormChris will go easy with the shillelagh.

I’ve been a member of RSES for the last 15 years, earned a CM, am studying for my CMS in heat pumps, and my only regret is not joining much earlier. Service technicians that laugh at RSES members are either “some” union people, and other service technicians that have either arrived at their total knowledge point and are perfect in their execution of their craft, or people that simply don’t know any better, a sad lot just the same.

I am working toward CM, what I consider a high water mark for certification. After that I'll move onto studying for CMS.
Here in Texas unions are rare for HVAC techs. I'll have to agree for others to turn down an opportunity to better themselves in their chosen field seems indicative they believe they've arrived and there's no further need to push on deeper. "Resting on one's laurels", so to speak. Always treacherous territory, that.

[westcoast refer man]

Originally posted by john dalton
Dear Westcoast refer man,

Regarding your previous posted comments:

“A simple answer to this question hasn't cleared up the controversy. Also, a simple answer may not lead to any greater understanding of how things really work.’

The original question posted by Hsteiner on page one of this thread has already been answered I think to everyone’s satisfaction.

My comments were directed to airworx. He didn't seem to be satisfied with previous explanations.


But, please comment on my above comments because I love a good debate of refrigeration principles or operation…………………………….

I haven't challenged you to a debate of refrigeration principles.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton

By the way, I think it's somewhat disengenuous to sign off "Respectfully Submitted" after having taken pot shots.

[top mechanic]

I think that a simple overcharge of a system would not cause an ice up, but a system would definitely still get iced up despite an overcharge,

RSES,

Those are tough tests, I have been fortunate enough to pass a few of those,

[john dalton]

Dear Westcoast refer man,

Regarding your previous re-post:

“By the way, I think it's somewhat disengenuous to sign off "Respectfully Submitted" after having taken pot shots.”

I would have to agree with that statement as well. It would be disingenuous (spelling corrected) to sign off with ‘Respectfully Submitted” after taking pot shots, but then again, that’s not what I did or do.

First and foremost, I stand by every one of my posts here on this thread, as well as for this forum. That’s not to say that all my posts are correct and accurate, for I’m confident they are not, I’m sure there are holes in my HVAC knowledge and education; I just don’t know where they’re at. That’s not bragging, that’s just a fact.

When someone kindly, or unkindly for that matter, points out one of my flaws or holes in my HVAC knowledge or education, and God knows I have many, I stand corrected. I don’t try to explain why my wrong answers are right, or simply take “pot shots’ at them, and never answer any direct questions, or comments they may post.

As for Airworx, I think his only comment regarding his most previous posts has centered around the point that he feels he was misquoted on this thread because he qualified his statement of an iced up system as a “refrigeration” rather than an “air conditioning “ system, if I’m not mistaken.

As far as “debating” is concern, I feel this is not an ugly, knock down, drag out fight, but rather a great old fashion way of looking at, not only a single persons point of view, but rather having the ability to gather information, knowledge, and actual hands on experience from many points of view of the same problem.

Now, for the matter at hand, what exact post do you think I used to take a “pot shot” at you? And before you answer this question, I’d like to say just one more thing.

Seriously here, if I have inadvertently offended you here on this thread, may I say, that was never my intention, and even though I did not do so with any malice or intent, may I humbly ask for your forgiveness my friend, and I do not use the word friend lightly.

Very Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton

PS: And my above signoff was meant word for word, and verbatim.

[john dalton]

Dear Top mechanic,

Of the RSES tests you’ve taken, which ones have you passed and been certified in?

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[hvacpope]

John Dalton and his great command of the english lenguage,
If you run for president, count with my vote!
and Paul harvey is still alive!!

[john dalton]

Dear Hvacpope,

Can’t tell by your short post if you’re being serious or facetious, which would it be friend? And by the way, I have a hard enough time with this profession as it is, and would not even consider running for president. Besides, I would never be elected based upon the fact that I would have to admit that I’m a Christian, believe in every single word, and scripture in the bible, that I think that Israel is, in fact, God’s chosen people, even though they sometimes screw up with the best of us, and that I can not, and will not abide by anyone who wants to tear down this country, its not perfect, but it’s the land of the free, and the home of the brave, and lastly, I’m sorry to say, it use to be, the country that honored God. The bumper sticker says: GOD BLESS AMERICA, well I say, look around friend………GOD HAS BLESSED AMERICA, NOW ITS TIME FOR AMERICA TO BLESS GOD!

Ahhhh……..sorry, I seemed to have jumped up on my soap box, I’m down now, so thank you regarding your post…..I think.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton



[Edited by john dalton on 04-29-2005 at 08:05 PM]

[chill factor]

Originally posted by john dalton
Dear Chill factor,

Regarding your previous post:

“I'll answer it! A pound is a pound. Its volume is different for the both objects.”

Although you’re right that the densities of these two items are different, the feathers, I’m afraid, still do weight approximately 33% more than the gold does.

Remember, things aren’t always as they may first appear………….

Explain to me how 1lbs of feathers weigh 33% more than 1lbs of gold! To me what you are saying is crock!

[top mechanic]

Originally posted by john dalton
Dear Top mechanic,

Of the RSES tests you’ve taken, which ones have you passed and been certified in?

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

CM, CMS controls

[top mechanic]

One pound of anything weighs the same as anything else that weighs a pound, if you are using the same type of pound measurement.If you are not, then of course it doesn't, but it makes no sense to measure two objects with two different tape measures, and if you did, you would need to use a conversion factor and then they would come out to the same.Anyway, so a pound is a pound is a pound and it realy is that simple,

[secorp]

Originally posted by hvacpope
John Dalton and his great command of the english lenguage,
If you run for president, count with my vote!
and Paul harvey is still alive!!

Hvacpope-hee hee that's dam funny stuff.
Paul Harvey is indeed alive, however he does not sound well, sounds 1,000 years old. he starts off each show with a ten minute commerical, only does a half hour now. good Day!


I have seen heat pumps work badly when overcharged?
especially when the dip switches on the defrost control have not been set up.

[john dalton]

Dear Chill factor,

Regarding your posted comment:

“Explain to me how 1lbs of feathers weigh 33% more than 1lbs of gold! To me what you are saying is crock!’

“Crock”…….hummmmmmmm, your saying that I’m wrong, inaccurate, and a robber of the truth….. ….please read the second post from the top on page eight(8) of this thread and post again.

By the way, it seems that my original question, as my apparent knowledge, and your assumption of me, may not be as simple as you’ve made them appear on this thread my friend.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton

[john dalton]

Dear Top mechanic,

CMS in controls, it would appear that my original evaluation of your control and economizer knowledge was correct and accurate, based upon your CMS status. I wonder what the service technicians on this forum would say to you, if they knew that less than 2,100 people in the world have ever obtained the CM certification, let alone the less than 400 people of the world, that have obtained the CMS certification in controls, such as yourself. I’ll bow to your dedication to acquiring knowledge in the HVAC/R my friend.

I am correctly studying to pass the upcoming introduction of the heat pump CMS certification test due out anytime now. Like you I know, I’ve been studying a long time toward it.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[chill factor]

Originally posted by john dalton
Dear Chill factor,

Regarding your posted comment:

“Explain to me how 1lbs of feathers weigh 33% more than 1lbs of gold! To me what you are saying is crock!’

“Crock”…….hummmmmmmm, your saying that I’m wrong, inaccurate, and a robber of the truth….. ….please read the second post from the top on page eight(8) of this thread and post again.

By the way, it seems that my original question, as my apparent knowledge, and your assumption of me, may not be as simple as you’ve made them appear on this thread my friend.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton

Alright Johnny! Your question did not state according to the international measurements of weight which would weigh more. When you go to a jeweler then, we must be getting less than what we expected we are getting!
Good answer John you got me! Hopefully one day I'll get you.

[john dalton]

Dear Chill factor,

Regarding your previous post:

“Alright Johnny! Your question did not state according to the international measurements of weight which would weigh more.’

That’s because, unlike the typical metric vs. standard measurements that you are referring to in the above statement, the troy and avoirdupois weight systems have been the “standard weight systems” in the United States of America since before we were even a country my friend, therefore such a statement would not be required my friend.


“When you go to a jeweler then, we must be getting less than what we expected we are getting!”

That would only apply if either the jeweler you were at was dishonest, or you didn’t know what you were doing in the first place, either scenario would be sad.


”Good answer John you got me! Hopefully one day I'll get you.”

And when that day occurs my friend, I will rejoice, for in that moment, I will have learned something from you.

Till then…………………

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton

[top mechanic]

John, back when I was taking the CMS exams I don't remember a heatpump one, they may have added this one as I have been out of touch with the everyday business of RSES for quite some time,at the time I was regularly involved there were the following

Heating
commercial refer
domestic refer
controls

And I can't remember the other ones perhaps it was heatpumps,