Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,383
    <<If someone does a manual d calculation on your existing duct system...how are you going to know they did it right ???

    Do this...get in an hvac contractor. Get them to make a detailed drawing of your complete system..making note of the boots, the type of takeoffs used, the way the fittings are made...90 ells with straight throats , whether or not turning vanes are used, radius ells or square ells etc.... get an exact drawing with sizes of your complete duct system. make copies for yourself. Then decide on a piece of equipemnt....it must be the same for all calculations.

    Then...give a copy of your drawings along with equipment info and any added accessories and have three contractors do a manual d on the set up.....

    then come back here and post your findings
    >>


    Isn't this what a lot of residential owner's need --- a skilled HVAC specialist to design what is needed, and then aid them in getting good competetive bids and post inspecting the work once it has been done?

    Do you suppose people would pay for that service?



    Seattle Pioneer

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    southern illinois
    Posts
    5,522
    sounds like a good idea...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,597
    Originally posted by SeattlePioneer
    <<If someone does a manual d calculation on your existing duct system...how are you going to know they did it right ???

    Do this...get in an hvac contractor. Get them to make a detailed drawing of your complete system..making note of the boots, the type of takeoffs used, the way the fittings are made...90 ells with straight throats , whether or not turning vanes are used, radius ells or square ells etc.... get an exact drawing with sizes of your complete duct system. make copies for yourself. Then decide on a piece of equipemnt....it must be the same for all calculations.

    Then...give a copy of your drawings along with equipment info and any added accessories and have three contractors do a manual d on the set up.....

    then come back here and post your findings
    >>


    Isn't this what a lot of residential owner's need --- a skilled HVAC specialist to design what is needed, and then aid them in getting good competetive bids and post inspecting the work once it has been done?

    Do you suppose people would pay for that service?



    Seattle Pioneer
    yes, it is what homeowners need.

    no, they will not pay for it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Most homeowners are not aware it is something that even needs to be done, much less that it is something they should pay extra for.

    For that matter, you will get blank looks of confusion from most HVAC contractors if you start talking about Manual D.

    I guess thats one of the "advantages" of the radial duct systems with flex duct used in my area. Besides being cheep to install, they are very forgiving and easy to adjust if things are not quite right.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    59
    As a homeowner I'd be willing to pay for it if it was reasonable - to do the manual j and d. Make recommendations and help to evaluate bids and a post install inspection.

    But I agree, most people don't bother to educate themselves at all, let alone enough to know that it's not a 1 size fits all thing.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,383
    I'm amazed. General agreement on what strategy homeowners should use to get a high quality HVAC design and installation, and general agreement that homeowners won't want to pay for what they need.



    Seattle Pioneer

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,666
    Same thing with service.
    Homeowner without a service contract: "Do I really need that part to make it run?
    Service tech: Yes.
    Homeowner: Is there any way you can fudge it through without one? (ie callback installed for free)

    Homeowner with a service contract: "Yeah put it in".
    (And go ahead and stuff it full of all the new parts on your van for all I care. I'll even take the day off if I have to.
    People love free stuff.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,964
    As I have stated in the past, and will continue to scream from the rooftops, we do perform a service, when we come into a customer's home and perform a survey including a load calculation. Most of us perform this survey at no cost to the home owner. IMHO this is lunacy. If we sit here and agree that this has value, but then at the same time apply no value to it, we have a contradiction. I agree that the HO will want and does want anything and everything they can get for "free." I do believe in that simple philosophy that you get what you pay for. With the exception of advice, which can have value that you didn't have to pay for.

    The day we stop providing "free estimates" in this industry will be the day we tell the world, "What we do, DOES have value!"

    If I perform a load calculation for a customer, and provide them that load calculation for their use, you can bet your A$$ that I got paid for it. It doesn't have to be much, it covers my time and expertise. Then, on the off chance that I don't get the job, I haven't sized the darn thing for my competition, some of whom wouldn't run a load calculation if their life depended on it.

    IF WE DON'T ASSOCIATE VALUE WITH WHAT WE DO, WHY SHOULD WE EXPECT THE HOMEOWNER TO?
    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,964
    Oh, by the way. No, a HO won't pay for this service. BUT, we should be charging for it. Understand? If not see earlier post.
    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

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