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Thread: R22

  1. #1
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    Mar 2005
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    Hmm

    What is that I hear about R22 phasing out by the year 2006 and everyone is going to 410?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    7,680
    You heard wrong.

    In 2006, the minimum efficiency is 13 SEER which has nothing to do with R-22 or R410A, in 2010, the units will be all R410A. The production of R-22 itself will continue to 2020 for service and the R-22 will be recycled and used until 2030.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    Where in VA m&m?
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

  4. #4
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    Mar 2005
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    Glad to hear it. Now on 410 this is a mixed refrigerant and has to be but in as a liquid and new not added to if there was a leak.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2005
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    Southern VA Best keep secret in VA

  6. #6
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    Green again I think you misunderstand. 410A is a near azeotropic blend meaning it will not seperate and there is no "glide". You do indeed charge with liquid. A small leak does not require the refrigerant to be thrown away.

    Where in VA? I will be teaching a class on 410A in various parts of the state in April. I spend a great deal of time debunking the myths prepetuated by rumor and deal with the facts. I encourage you to attend it.

  7. #7
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    I am taking a class now and for what I had understood that if there was a leak with 410 and since it was a mixed refrigerant that you could not know what part leaked out so you would have to recover it all pull a vaccum and then put in all new was I told wrong or misunderstood. I am in southern Virginia

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    Delaware
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    Confused DocHoliday

    Originally posted by docholiday
    410A is a near azeotropic blend meaning it will not seperate and there is no "glide". You do indeed charge with liquid.
    That is something which has always puzzled me. Even after attending class for three different equipment manufacturers I've yet to get a satisfactory answer on WHY you have to charge as a liquid. Maybe you can give me an answer I've not heard. In so many words the only answer I've gotten is "because we say so". If it won't fractionalize, I should not have to charge liquid.
    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

  9. #9
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    Central Kentucky
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    6,248

    Re: DocHoliday

    Originally posted by GradyWhite244

    That is something which has always puzzled me. Even after attending class for three different equipment manufacturers I've yet to get a satisfactory answer on WHY you have to charge as a liquid. Maybe you can give me an answer I've not heard. In so many words the only answer I've gotten is "because we say so". If it won't fractionalize, I should not have to charge liquid.
    Grady I have wondered the same thing & no good answer yet,hopefully Doc or others will be able to shed some light on this.
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  10. #10
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    Apr 2004
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    The reason is is, that it is R410A is a NEAR azeotropic blend as mentioned in my previous post, not an azeotrope. And a small leak, also discussed, was meant or defined as low loss leaks, not large loss leaks. (say that 3 times real fast)

    Over the course of charing systems from a 25 pound cylendar, there might be the slightest fractional speration. You are protecting your investment in the refrigerant jug by charging with liquid. A small leak in a residential system of a few pounds will not have enough speration to affect the performance once the leak is repaired and the system charge is corrected.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Delaware
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    Best answer yet

    Now lets go a step farther. Aprox. what percentage loss of a system's charge would be considered a "small" leak & without pulling out the refrigerant, how do I know how low the system is? We both know "pressure" is not the answer. Not trying to be a smart a**, just trying to learn & do things right. Been in this game nearly 20 years & learn something almost daily.
    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

  12. #12
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    Its not a percentage really, its an overall loss in pounds. I would say that a system containing 10-12 pounds of total system charge losing 8 pounds would be still ok, much more and I would replace it. (Of course you're only replacing 2-4 pounds in this case, no biggie). A system with only 8 pounds would probably never have an issue. The real problem is in constant adding and leaking. The leak should be repaired. My numbers are certainly not scientific just an example. The worst seperation occurs when the refrigerant is in a vapor form and if the leak is in the liquid side, it probably wouldnt seperate.

    If you really want to question the blend, the proper thing to do would be to do a pressure temperature check.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    Im glad you're asking Grady,I'm still trying to learn the new blend.
    I've only have three installes with the stuff with no schooling on it at all,but what I get from you guys.

    Hey Doc,will you be coming to the Tidewater area anytime soon?

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