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  1. #1

    T-stat and Control Wiring Problems

    OK, so hoepfully this stays short. I built my house 2 years ago (3,100+ SF) and had a dual fuel system installed. A Manual J was done because it was new construction and needed all the proper permits so I believe everything was sized correctly...equipment and ductwork.

    The system specs are:

    Zone 1
    Heat Pump - Goodman SSZ160361A
    Johnson Controls A19ABC-24 installed within the heat pump
    Furnace - Goodman GMV950704X (I guess this is the older non-communicating model)
    Thermostat - Honeywell TH6220 (after reading I see this isn't a dual fuel t-stat)

    Zone 2
    Heat Pump - Goodman SSZ160361A
    Air Hanlder - Goodman AEPF303616 with 8kW HKR backup kit
    Thermostat - Honeywell TH6220

    So, during the summer months, my electric bills are very reasonable. However, during the winter I feel like the electric bills are very high, as well as I'm burning lots of propane (about 1,000 gallons per year for the past 2 years). I'm thinking this is because the furnace wasn't converted properly because the flame looks to have too much yellow and should be blue. I know this sounds crazy I've let it go almost 2 years however I've been busy with getting married and a new baby so I let things slip. Anways, back to the HVAC, I have a tech called to come and check over the entire system, however I wanted to make sure I have the correct information when talking with him. I feel the original installers did me wrong with the incorrect t-stats and no fossil fuel kit installed (more to come on this later) to control the sytem.

    I've also noticed the last few weeks that my Zone 1 thermostat will say "Heat On", however the heat pump and gas furnace aren't running but the fan is blowing air out the vents. This doesn't seem correct and I'm thinking a result of the wiring.

    So, I decided to check the control wiring and see how everything was wired up. Below is a picture of my wiring, which seems to be wrong, from what I've read here and in the install instructions. Again, I'm going to have the tech correct it, but want to make sure he does it correctly and I know what to check on because I've had other issues with my electrician wiring my septic pump and float switches incorrectly. I'm also wondering how you can control a dual fuel system with the wrong stat and no fossil fuel kit.

    http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...ingDiagram.jpg

    1. To correct this, my tech says he has a Honeywell VisionPro 8000 series that he will install, which looks to be correct, but I'm guessing I'll need to install a different outdoor temp sensor to work with that stat. Is this correct?

    2. Or, should I just upgrade to the VisionPro IAQ because I have the variable speed furnace, which I believe the IAQ controls better? I also have a humidifier attached to the system as you can see in the wiring diagram.

    3. Does anyone else see anything wrong with my wiring diagram that I should alert the tech to when they come out.

    Thanks for the help.

  2. #2
    help! change termostat for a heat pump,soon as I connect blue wire for W1 I burn out transformer.so I didn'd connect it run,but it not right so help me out please.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bakersfield, Ca
    Posts
    1,716
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorRags View Post
    OK, so hoepfully this stays short. I built my house 2 years ago (3,100+ SF) and had a dual fuel system installed. A Manual J was done because it was new construction and needed all the proper permits so I believe everything was sized correctly...equipment and ductwork.

    The system specs are:

    Zone 1
    Heat Pump - Goodman SSZ160361A
    Johnson Controls A19ABC-24 installed within the heat pump
    Furnace - Goodman GMV950704X (I guess this is the older non-communicating model)
    Thermostat - Honeywell TH6220 (after reading I see this isn't a dual fuel t-stat)

    Zone 2
    Heat Pump - Goodman SSZ160361A
    Air Hanlder - Goodman AEPF303616 with 8kW HKR backup kit
    Thermostat - Honeywell TH6220

    So, during the summer months, my electric bills are very reasonable. However, during the winter I feel like the electric bills are very high, as well as I'm burning lots of propane (about 1,000 gallons per year for the past 2 years). I'm thinking this is because the furnace wasn't converted properly because the flame looks to have too much yellow and should be blue. I know this sounds crazy I've let it go almost 2 years however I've been busy with getting married and a new baby so I let things slip. Anways, back to the HVAC, I have a tech called to come and check over the entire system, however I wanted to make sure I have the correct information when talking with him. I feel the original installers did me wrong with the incorrect t-stats and no fossil fuel kit installed (more to come on this later) to control the sytem.

    I've also noticed the last few weeks that my Zone 1 thermostat will say "Heat On", however the heat pump and gas furnace aren't running but the fan is blowing air out the vents. This doesn't seem correct and I'm thinking a result of the wiring.

    So, I decided to check the control wiring and see how everything was wired up. Below is a picture of my wiring, which seems to be wrong, from what I've read here and in the install instructions. Again, I'm going to have the tech correct it, but want to make sure he does it correctly and I know what to check on because I've had other issues with my electrician wiring my septic pump and float switches incorrectly. I'm also wondering how you can control a dual fuel system with the wrong stat and no fossil fuel kit.

    http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...ingDiagram.jpg

    1. To correct this, my tech says he has a Honeywell VisionPro 8000 series that he will install, which looks to be correct, but I'm guessing I'll need to install a different outdoor temp sensor to work with that stat. Is this correct?

    2. Or, should I just upgrade to the VisionPro IAQ because I have the variable speed furnace, which I believe the IAQ controls better? I also have a humidifier attached to the system as you can see in the wiring diagram.

    3. Does anyone else see anything wrong with my wiring diagram that I should alert the tech to when they come out.

    Thanks for the help.
    I may look at your schematic but alas you must get your post count up to 15 and apply for pro to get your questions answered. good luck!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bakersfield, Ca
    Posts
    1,716
    Quote Originally Posted by polon View Post
    help! change termostat for a heat pump,soon as I connect blue wire for W1 I burn out transformer.so I didn'd connect it run,but it not right so help me out please.
    You my friend, should buy stock in 5A fuses and try again. Or, call someone who knows what they are doing. No offense, of course.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bakersfield, Ca
    Posts
    1,716
    Quote Originally Posted by DavyB View Post
    I may look at your schematic but alas you must get your post count up to 15 and apply for pro to get your questions answered. good luck!
    The time that you spent on your drawering may have paid for itself if you had called a tech. Hot to common never works.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Metro Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    475
    If you don't have a dual fuel kit on the system, you'll be running the heat pump and the gas furnace at the same time whenever 2nd stage heat is calling. This is the first thing I'd have a tech address.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Monroe County, PA
    Posts
    99
    Dr Rags -

    Of course the tech you have come to the site will be better able to evaluate your options, but I'd be a bit wary of putting all my hopes on the 8000. Yes, it is able to support 3 heat and 2 cool, and although it should be able to control the furnace on its own without a separate fossil fuel kit, it appears to be designed for a 2-stage HP with single stage aux / fossil fuel heat heat. Your heat pump is a single stage unit (SSZ), and my understanding is that it is not possible / a good idea to try to cluge stage 2 of the heat pump to be stage one of the furnace. The programming will make the lockouts and step-ups not work. You will only be able to use your furnace in single stage unless there is an external fossil fuel kit controlling it.

    The VisionPro IAQ supports 4H 2C and would be a better choice - you can use single stage HP and 2 stage furnace and have it all controlled by the thermostat.

    As for the wiring diagram, I assume the Blue/Pink line on the ODT unit goes to the Y of the Heat Pump? I am a bit concerned that the DFT doesn't go to the W on the furnace (sometimes also labeled W or W1 on the Heat Pump). This is typically what tells the furnace to kick in when the HP goes into defrost mode. Maybe it's set up this way because the HP coils are positioned downstream of the burners inside the furnace, something I understand is a big no-no.

    ALL of my recommendations are simply food for thought, not to be taken as expert knowledge. Like you, I read up and try to become educated so I can understand the options my contractor lays in front of me so I can be an informed consumer. The actual analysis and work is done by someone licensed and experienced to do it right.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Monroe County, PA
    Posts
    99
    Don't thread-jack someone else's thread - you confuse the people who want to help out the original poster!
    Quote Originally Posted by polon View Post
    help! change termostat for a heat pump,soon as I connect blue wire for W1 I burn out transformer.so I didn'd connect it run,but it not right so help me out please.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Monroe County, PA
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Campbell View Post

    The VisionPro IAQ supports 4H 2C and would be a better choice - you can use single stage HP and 2 stage furnace and have it all controlled by the thermostat.
    The VP IAQ should also let you get rid of all the extra relays for the humidifier and the need for an extra external thermostat (assuming you buy and install the Honeywell external temp sensor). It's cleaner to have just one unit control it all.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,484
    You need a dual-fuel stat for each system.

    For system #1 I would use the VisionPro IAQ, and for system #2 I would get the VisionPro 8000 or VisionPro IAQ. Get a C7089U1006 Outdoor Temperature Sensor for each one.

    You could also use the White-Rodgers 1F95-1277 or 1F95-1291 (if you need humidity controlled by the stat). The both use an external temperature sensor.

    BTW, your current wiring looks like a mess.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,765
    Quote Originally Posted by garya505 View Post
    You need a dual-fuel stat for each system.

    For system #1 I would use the VisionPro IAQ, and for system #2 I would get the VisionPro 8000 or VisionPro IAQ. Get a C7089U1006 Outdoor Temperature Sensor for each one.

    You could also use the White-Rodgers 1F95-1277 or 1F95-1291 (if you need humidity controlled by the stat). The both use an external temperature sensor.

    BTW, your current wiring looks like a mess.

    Why does he need a dual fuel kit for his non dual fuel system?

    He already has an outdoor stat for dual fuel switch over on his dual fuel system.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,484
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Why does he need a dual fuel kit for his non dual fuel system?

    He already has an outdoor stat for dual fuel switch over on his dual fuel system.
    Ya, a cheaper heat pump stat would work on system #2.

    On system #1, I just think having the stat do the dual-fuel control is a better set-up. That wiring looks overly complicated.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DavyB View Post
    The time that you spent on your drawering may have paid for itself if you had called a tech. Hot to common never works.
    I'm assuming this is directed at me, not sure if it was meant to be a stab or not. As I posted I've already called a tech, but he's doing it as a favor and I'm at his whim when he can show up. He's busy "making a living" as you pros like to call it. Being this is a favor and he has an extra VisionPro 8000 series stat, I wanted to know whether this was the best stat for my system or should I pay money to upgrade. Sounds like an upgrade to the IAQ is preferred.

    Also, my time is free and the tech is doing this for free so anything I can do to minimize his trip to my house is probably appreciated by him. My plan is to be able to give him this wiring diagram to maybe expedite his repairs. Sounds like he needs to check all my control wiring and also check the furnace for proper propane conversion.

    Tom, I appreicate the comment about the DFT terminal...fortunately this heat pump has never froze up but that's probably because it doesn't seem to run in the colder weather (most likely because of my screwed up wiring). I'm thinking this is why I'm burning so much propane because the furnace runs even when it's high 30's and the heat pump should definitely be running based on the set point of the ODT. I'll make sure he checks this to ensure proper defrost.

    As far as my zone 2, sounds like I'll take the VisionPro 8000 series and use it there, and then buy IAQ for Zone 1.

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