Welcome to all New Guests going Pro? Do not post equipment questions in this forum

[GTSol]

Hello:
Already with some Q's too !
Pneumatics to a cut-off Johnson-boxes PE interface never finished by others 6 years old... in a wall full of Tx's and 15 wired interfaces and solenoids to pneumatics!
I have a great 72 year old mentoring the pneumatics who just finished for a large Johnson city-wide service co, the big city building of Pneumatic refurbishing, instead of digitizing, he does so well.. but of little help with the PE interfacing from digital sys controlling side.
I have energy mgt experience step-logic programming (ENRON, PARAGON, Calculator-type systems to industrial soft-start and device programming and some Honeywell too).

I will start reading several posts immediately.
My Specialty is limited controls and unlimited thermal energy transfer and fluid dynamics of air and hydronics and pumps (I rep an OEM flow center builder).

Then some Q's for the gang.

[GTSol]

Ever sheet-metaled a solar collector box?
Solstar 1978-'80s had a neat layers- window-screen dust collectr (solar) that required great air-tight filtering for longevity. (done, easy enough).

We had in the early 80's those "oil-windfall credits of 50%" Solar wind Geo-T(122f water-GT, not shallow ground loop GT)...

In the solar hype: SheetMetal boxes from 10x4's were punched into production for 2 to 6 collector AIr-Water heating in homes and offices, very well enough 24ga galv with 1.1/2" iso-foam walls and 3 window screens and a layer of PTFE clear and sundex or other Fylon top glazing (UV protected-er).. lasted over 20 years on buildings and homes (boxes repainted at spots...).

CAN DO TODAY, I have reason to believe. Some day I will post the leaflet with my pic from 1980 holding a collectr- (looking-installer-like) in southern of a north state.

Window screen material can be found OEM baked at 500 for a charcol grey door/window screening solar collection.

GET CERTS... ? for the eStar credentialing that is not with self-made uncertified's, may be an issue if not produced in-expensively enough.

Can put out 3000+ btuh's normal/perpindicular to a zone 5 winter sunlighting ! and 8x4 sheets close enough that 2 heat 80 gal tanks daily and MORE SO IN CLOUDY DAYS than hydronics of the past. The newer low-heat-content- water collectors and that CA convection-effect Solar-Siphon newB is very interesting; but less plumbing glycols, etc with an efficient air system (dollar-to-usable: DTU efficiency) comes out UNDER 5000, instlled and you get space heating and can divert blower section for air-cleaning in and out of heating the air flowing; and serves for neat air rotation!

No I have not installed recently, but would like some objective bantering soon.

[GTSol]

Humbing knocking on doors too: BUT IT WORKS for HVAC marketing, I have found.

"In the neighborhood of THE WHOLE CITY-WIDE AREA"
"Looking for next projects and eliminating those salesy costs" I tell 'em.

'We're just talkin, here, and can I, - can I ask you a question now?'
What if
and what if you were offered something not just a little unusual, but very (inhale here (is a must)) very-very unusual-how -would-you-feel?'

This question must be supported by your UNUSUAL offering.. truthfully good, and then said in a flowing verbosity that sounds comfortable. Your lightly colored clothing and smile got you past the door opening to a stranger knocking...

This EFFECTIVE approach is repeated in the appointed (later date, or later that day) warm-up, after explaining a little customer -company- and why you work with or what you do in the presentation mode.
"Le'me measure it up w/you! Hold that tape measure with me please" and values out there with this are in the ***'s but I think (reiterated) ""something very very unusual will be what is what you can find right now @ $**'s..."

I usually buy from 'a friend' that has shown VALUE over investment.

This is how analytical tech's were trained to get appts. and move into finding that OVER 50% of the HVAC CLOSES (and most improvements pro small comm to res) - OVER 50% are closed in that single call; and even if another estimate is LOWER than yours, sitting on a suspect's table- becaus ethe closure as you may know- is for having YOU over anyone else, with some HVAC stuff.

[GTSol]

[QUOTE=when it does not start, you troubleshoot it!

keep up the hard work and again welcome!

Frank[/QUOTE]

and when Ican not trouble shoot 'it' ? I have learned to admit that and go to question mode....

[GTSol]

Divergent [QUOTE=versatility of this industry is ...]


the only thing ,... that is ...[same exact way everytime]

and that is why I will rarely respond "we do or I" doing something as if it is the "end all-" of a practical objective well-questioned tracked foundationally-mathematically-respectively only correct way... - among right ways, left ways, all-ways, high-ways, others'-ways, and only if so proven: wrong ways, too - absolute only relative to time=ways needed to tolerated...
-anyways- ha!

[TXTech1]

Hey all, new here. I have only been in the industry a few years but getting fairly well versed. I took an odd route of getting into the hvac work I guess. I grew up on a farm/ranch where I worked with all sorts of different machinery and mechanics so I knew how to take stuff apart and put it back together fairly well. I went to college for computer network administration and built up a solid troubleshooting process albeit in slightly different circumstances, as I went through college i worked in alot of different construction trades to get by which helped me understand how different trades installed things. I started in the HVAC industry on the computer end of it I guess, I built an inventory database for a HVAC company and ran their shipping/receiving while making sure it was implemented right. During this time I would have slow days or the company would be short a man in the field and I would go assist the technicians/installers. After awhile of this I figured out I missed working with my hands and disliked being in the office so I started becoming a fairly quick study on how the different parts I was stocking worked into a system as well as reading anything I could get my hands on. I have now been in the field a few years and still read anything I get my hands on if it relates to HVAC systems to help me understand the science behind how systems work so my troubleshooting is more effective. Thats basically it, loving the forum some great stuff on here from what I have seen

[benatwhodotnet]

How I really got started??? Well in HS the guidance counselor rejected my sign-up for small engine repair, saying that since I would go to college I could not be in there... it was a course for guys who would likely never graduate. I felt bad about that, because I had friends in that class. After college I immediately signed up with the local community college for motorcycle maintenance and small engine repairs to fix my 1970 Honda CB350T. One thing led to another and I took 2 years of welding courses and a year of refrigeration so that I could remodel my basement and move the AC coil to where I had relocated the gas furnace. I called an HVAC contractor who told me 500 to drain and fill and shorten the line set by 20 feet. I didn't have 500 but could spend the money on 30 dollar class and still buy the R22 and manifold gauge set and vacuum pump from local Graingers store for half that amount. Shortly thereafter I sold the house and moved to AZ with my database job... worked for AMEX for 6 years. Now I'm approaching retirement from the world of mainframe computers but want to increase my HVAC business from handyman to contractor license. I've got a lot of experience and I pride myself on extensive electronic troubleshooting expertise, even to the point of replacing components on obsolete circuit boards, substituting boards, rewiring around unavailable boards, etc. I like replacing compressors when other guys only want to sell the homeowner a new unit... and there are elderly widows who just can't afford those replacements. I offer the alternative.

[GTSol]

[QUOTE=replacing compressors when other guys only want to sell ....]
when better , that really is better.

Cleaned, purged, Nitrogen and flushes ( that epoxy-paint thinner stuff at times )... and no call backs as much as the days watching 'trainers' cut the corners... or tell me how slow I was, then re-fixing "speedy's " leaks.

Sounds like the public has benefitted from your work ! a technical tec ! I like it !

[GTSol]

Some science as memorizing a few great little formulae

500 x dTf x gal/min = 1.085 (to 1.13- exceptions) x CFM x dTf = k in ?

[GTSol]

(= Q in what units , thermally

[GTSol]

[QUOTE=northstarair;14893401] 'what the...]
heaven, now right?

ya can technicallically improve evr'day , yes? seems like work is available in any town too? right?
can knock on a door or go to a company and fit somewheres fast? - industry sounds like heaven!

[benatwhodotnet]

I just bought a new compressor to put into my 1997 Bryant heat pump next week. I know it is only 10 SEER but I have 7-10 mWh surplus electricity per year and find it difficult to spend bucks on a new unit when the bonus will be that the power company sells my electricity for 16 cents and pays me 6... kind of makes the old unit attractive for its' reliability too. Easy to work on package on my flat roof, and the wiring is super simple. I could wait for a failure but the broken mount inside the hermetically sealed case is banging too loud now. I'll recover the R22, set up a slow N2 flow, cut-fit-braze, evacuate, charge by weight. I suspect I need to weigh the charge in because there was not enough to get heat when the weather got cold. I added 1 lb. 4 oz. based on SWAG and an ammeter in the middle of the night.

[GTSol]

At a pneumatic building the diaphram heads were either leaking or the stems to the 3-ways on heat side of the 4 pipe were sticking in their "proportioned controll-stroke" position.
Bank with years of one outstanding maintenance co as a whole, and 6 more years of the co ousting them, only finding unusable controls in 4 of 24 univent fancoils and air filters with black mold, and a 1.1/2 compressor and 20 gal air tank on a 5 gal x usu 1/2 hp compressor load ( if all leaks reduced to a couple or none)...

Your only as good as your last tech, right? GO FOR IT ! check ask know and go t29 !

[GTSol]

What I think I now have seen for HVAC old or large building works and techs is that it may be good to switch off techs that don't hang around the one or two always in charge of say one building! and but try to have an open policy (of an ancient writing) of all agreeing to go to the previously responsible tech FIRST and let them catch it , or with a witness, to them FIRST; and see if a re-fix (or oversight) was done (if bucks and time allow) so ALL LOOK AS GOOD AS SHOULD/ - -

So the prev co tech , with an open mind, did come through again and correct some and spelled out MORE than seen in need. It is such that although I work with one helper on a couple large buildings I sold " bringing in an expert of experience in theses matters" and so we all have benefitted from the previous overseer fixing some oversights ! (Paid them on the spot!)

[GTSol]

Tint Ed CT - very encouraging and makes me thinks to work sos harders ! Glad to hear, I lke longer stories: TintDr !
NCP !

even though a plastic is not as conductive as most metals, did ya ever see a pond coil from res GeoThermal calcs do a process cooling job?
Later I will post pics of own designed HX coils in 1996 based on 6" on center of 1" poly-e 3408 sdr-11.
But here's the dope:
While the local distributor was trying to sell direct a name brand (!) I wrote a PERFORMANCE GUARRANTEED on what I never did in a large scale but tracked for 13 years previously...
"Cuts that chiller of 25 hp to 3 hp, exact same dT or greater at same gpm of process cooling required! or if 10% off, you keep 20% ( my GP, (then- hah!)) ."
How doing so the directing engineer who said "ya got 5 minutes, strange person to me"...
I said I showed you : performance guaranteed, and please check these references who know of other smaller things...
And I grabbed 5 pens and said I am guaranteeing these 4 back to you in savings or I will rip it out as if you never knew me.
Little smack of the 5th pen down on the table. He smirked "get out of here".
Two weeks later installing :
12 coils x 1" x 420 ft split T-d off a 2 "T to reducing 2" to the 1" PE (lousy GT High KW for this higher Press Drop design) to 6 coils off each half the 2" ALL PLUMBED 500 ft away on the 2" too ! (- not a best, but watch, comparitively).
I "happened" to additionally run another pair of 2" PE in the 6ft deep by 2ft wide ditch...
if too much PD , then parallel away! - but that did not happen...
a 3 hp baldor on a Grundfos such that 53 GPM x 14 deg dT of 96 out and 82 back is what ? compared to a 25 hp (27-30ton) air-cooled chiller?
NOW COMES HEAT RECOVERY: the Chiller is a BUILDING HEATER when room- facility needs 35 tons of heat ( like a half million gas overhead heater !) only using ~ 22-24 KW COP 5+ !!! When process cooling. They never added a direct dry cooler, but paid for a second pond coil, 7ft dia's 12 on 2" 1100 ft circuit already in ditch the second pair! And added city's first comm offices 16 ton Hydro-Temp GeoThermal 3-staged, dual compressor (small+larger,then3rd stage) AR Manf) utilizing heat-reclaim and that co's patented 1981 priority hot water on demand 9in and out of A/C and process cooling, also heat reclaim from process cooling to space heating the offices 500 yards away.

[GTSol]

COOOOL!

Ur right ! It is neat to read - yes around HVAC load designing since 1976, and that's neat too...
But I would appreciate an only 120 deg attic at times!
Sweaty dude I was in only 8-10 minutes in and 5 minutes cooling out last summer flex ducting what I undersold for assistants to do... a hot lesson in over 125 degrees!

[Gary R]

Hi my name is Gary Robinson and I'm new to these forums. I've been working as a building performance engineer for the last two years. Most the work I do is involves energy auditing and/or testing and balancing.

Most jobs have been commercial properties and/or individual buildings on hospital complexes or military bases. Most of these facilities have large central chiller plants and steam or hot water heating plant.

[manjeet singh]

it has been gr8 after joining dis site...nw I can put my problems and issues ova ere n get d solutions or dat....m learning a lot..thx all

[manjeet singh]

happened to me also...wen i started learning abt hvac i knew nothin..nothin at all and i thought dat if i will sart i will come to knw very easily bt seriously so far m no where still working to get things all together n get involved in phychrometrics,,but its true the more u r involved the more u r into dis stuff.....will lean a lot from dis place...thx to all in advance

[manjeet singh]

currently tryin to get a good hvac system for my project while learning...d more i do d more i learn...