06-27-2013, 09:40 PM
Graduating with a HVACR Diploma and leaving school I thought I knew it all, well, that was not the case. Its not until you have to clime a 30 foot ladder covered in ice at 0F Ambient then trucking through 3 feet of snow on a rubber membrane flat roof for 200 feet then finally getting to the unit and realizing that at that point in my life I hoped that when I opened that door on that unit that the fault would be something easy, I remember thinking to myself, please just be something easy, please. Well it was just a broken belt and what do ya know, there was a new shiny spare below the fan staring me right in the face. From that point at the start of my career I realized the horrible feeling of intimidation that new experiences have on new tradespeople. My first Journeyman told me, "If you don't learn at least one thing a day in our trade, you will fall behind" From that lesson forward I always take initiative to learn from my mistakes, LISTON to the old pros and always have respect for people that take the time to teach.
06-27-2013, 09:53 PM
Just checkin in from Canada, Whats the HVACR industry like in the states? I have always been curious. I feel so sheltered I'm glad I signed up here, I would like to get to know what Technicians go through in all parts of North America. Thanks
06-30-2013, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by RACMT
Perhaps as you walk through threads of 2008 to present, especially savings genre on various systems, you'l see why you can not be "isolated" where you are from any location where there is process or comfort hvac-hw-heatReclaim requirements...
I bet you could be as busy as any traveler (Ive installed in 3 states in the past 4 years since starting in 1976 sales and 1980 installations and industrial design of Geo-T). I say you could be as busy, since there are so ,many loose to too tight methods and minds on the subject of mandated, needed mandated, done, and undone systems. Maybe I mean it is like a husband-wife thing: even in "Godly-relation fellowships", 40+% are undone; live-ins and outside spiritual fellowships of designation- 55% undoings are reported, and over 75% of the remaining doings staying done-together, were virgin couples...when closing a commitment.
Same as any industry: commit and be busy seeking/testing/proving improvements weighted by some local practicality. (Whew, if only I did that all the time !) But in some answer: N-amer? We are just learning why say, Triangle tube uses the IBC Boiler heat exchanger, from CANADIAN condensing technology and simple applicability... now America still needs to figure how IBC controls it best!
2000 ton Geo-loops were in CANADA before 2003 ! While I fought for at least 32 EW loops from geofields, since Energy Star ETL Lab accepted all 3rd party ratings, ABOVE AHRI, ES-ratings START THERE at 32* (0*c)
, CAN has successful ROI's with 28*f EW loops! And super applications with Var-Drive wilo and gfos var pumps YEARS BEFORE US-A...
[not sold to any other than job used]
[not repping any GT OEM since June 2011]
But here's my manufactured (re-spun, on my own designed spindle for PE pond-loop HX as coils) pond coil set up for PROCESS COOLING 1996-1997 and another similar(3/4" pipes instead of below 1") for a 16 ton (size 19 compared) office GT at the same plant.
1" PE ~ 420 ft coils; 7ft dia x 5 layers (like horizontal discs , when wound on spindle) ea of 6" ctr piping stacked 2" ctr apart vertically, the "discs" of coils; 6 each of a single side of a 2" T of to 6 coils for total of 12; that replaced a 25 HP "chiller" with a 3 hp Baldor on ?Gfos 8ru- and a slow staging 1.1/2hp 700 feet away:
"How ya savin' 75% over our chiller?" in closing I answered, "on a 65% performance guaranteed contract to you; and if below 65% saved, then 10% off; and if below 50%- then I remove all and you pay nothing, or decide what for what..."
ph rang 3 weeks later. And again for the GT-Offices and HW in full heat recovery in cooling , inclusive.
Saved over 84%; plus- no refrigeration tech... or service calls SINCE.
06-30-2013, 12:13 AM
Too you'll see http://www.hvacopcost.com/ which has close to you UNDER 5000 deg days above Ohio; and Ohio has 6700 deg day pockets; and -22 to -27 pak cold 2 nights 1994/Jan... and a lot -11*f to -16*f in NE Ohio! (which in 1994 led to gas-furnace installers getting threats of legal action if they did not FREELY improve the installs; while GeoT-HP kicked in supplemental, 2nd "furnace").
So get US-A a better calculator !!!
06-30-2013, 12:23 AM
07-03-2013, 07:29 AM
Hey everyone, I found this site a few months ago and finally have decided to start posting and get involved. Here's my story.
I'm in my early 20's and only a couple years removed from acquiring a B.A. in mathematics. Before anyone jumps to any conclusions, I'm aware that I could be doing lots of things with this degree other than HVACR and it will be next to useless when it comes to helping me in the industry.
Anyway, after graduating and working a desk job crunching numbers for 6 months I realized that I was not living a life chosen by myself. I was simply taking everyone else's advice and never making my own decision. I had acquired a degree I was not really interested in and was on a track to careers that were not me. So I ended up on the career hunt, for several months.
During this career hunt I installed fences through the summer as a job and quickly realized that I was happy for the first time in my life when it came to working for money. So how could I translate the enjoyment I was getting out of this summer job into a career? I factored in my desire to work with my hands, utilize my problem solving and mathematical mind, and a few other things like a challenging field and something that can't really be outsourced or computerized. Obviously if I'm posting here I came to the conclusion of HVACR.
My ultimate goal is to do union commercial and industrial work on the really complicated and confusing equipment. Unfortunately out of the gate I had to start with running parts for a private company. In the 9 months I've been there I've learned next to nothing about HVACR, but a lot about the service industry. Also, I applied and was accepted into the Local nearby that covers HVACR service.
I'm hoping this forum will be a valuable tool for me going forward for the following reasons; guidance, encouragement and help with learning. So far I've gone through one interview process with a union commercial/industrial company to no avail, but I potentially have another one coming up so let's hope for that.
Thanks to all who took the time to read this. Also if anyone out there has any interview advice for me based upon what I've posted about myself that would be wonderful. My thoughts are to do what I did to get accepted into the Local, talk up my intelligence and hammer home my enthusiasm and excitement for the trade, being challenged and learning new things each and every day. Thanks again guys.
07-05-2013, 09:50 AM
Had some fun just tracking say headers designs of new (then) now installed GeoThermal for Ft Knox and the high schools 2007-2010; and mathematically, not calculus though, noticed head pressures in the 40 PSI and not 22-26 ft TDH water, were causing large HP requirements and inducing IBR boiler dudes and engineers to proclaim INCLUDE THE PUMP MEGAWATTS-Hours! (same goes for solar hi PD layouts...)
That was just a catch of the math, you may simply employ as a consultant.:::
ALL GT-Pool-WAter-Source-heatpumps (WSHP,GTHP, WHP) and chillers, and -like water coils, WITH the entire fittings and piping fitted in train--- can be super efficient BELOW 22-26 TDH ft-water, and more so depending on the glycol used about 16-18% or methanol not-above 20% (!) -residentially and some commercially, since 1983, 16%-17% Methanol by Vol has been great for Northern GTHP, loops large enough for minm.2.7 GPM per actual labelled compressor ton inside a unit and fluid of 34*f or more, entering loop to unit temps/ heat-loaded systems that are "chillin' Earth Coupled Loops (ECL, gle, gtx) -all:
---an astute refrigeration tech just being artful, knows...
07-05-2013, 10:06 AM
About those above 'high-school headers':
ASHRAE had standards of absolute max PD/sugg-flows for piped systems (however may be inefficient to date) of "water" through plastic headers. A 'catch' of the math: Such were that too high of PD's in two attempted header designs, - so it was encouraged [barely thru GCof A/E, ASHRAE tables flying thru fax machines] for a third bidding- to at least increase pipe diameters to get flows UNDER those ASHRAE published maximums, reducing pumping (inefficient) horsepower to some 'reasonabilities' +bettering systemic potential savings, already over natural gas condensing boilers, and hw and heat-recovery and HRV/ERV with recovery- to- hot water heating as well circulation layouts and for use in cooling modes, for a high school. (just plain math) "building headers for flushing, not so much restricting general operation(s) of low-med speeds that are ~80% of the annually averaged runs.
Still your math skills can be immediately applied
to tracking all loaded work(s) of thermal energy transfer, vs. the connected equipment, say TRUE NET COOLING/CHILLING tonnage K- Energy transfer. Right now all over this HVAC industry! Say, in existing schools and more so very large buildings applications: water/fluid circulation: constant (weight/vol, etc) 500(wtr) x GalPerMin x diffTemp*f (in to out at a water line) = BTUh (12,000 to a "ton" , hot or cold) - help everyone WATCH THE WORK actually loaded/needed/exchanged by monitoring cyclic activity to connected coolers and heaters, systemically presenting your 'hysterical' (some hysteresis) mathematically-tracked findings to friendly experienced techs and HVAC Engineers that can 'associate with you' and certify or stamp the findings, or they go out to inspect/verity with you/ your general contracting for a mutual profit and savings.
Simple math can support Lavalle's (heat exchangers) "efficiency" reports: -about how/what just 3% entrained air in water circulation to exchanger-surfaces and pump volute/blade surfaces in enclosed pressurized loops, where air escaped a bit to entangle, produces significantly less systemic efficiency.
WE NEED YOU NOW !
07-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Well I just got my first spanking for replying to a pro forum. I tend to subscribe to threads that are of interest to me and on impulse added my 2 cents and got deleted shortly after.
Sent from my Thunderbolt
07-05-2013, 06:13 PM
The pro forums are invisible to you until you get pro membership, that must have been the AOP forum.
Originally Posted by pnagel180
As soon as you have 15 posts you can apply for pro.
Worry is a really gross misuse of one's imagination. -- PHM
07-05-2013, 06:22 PM
My bad. You are correct it was an AOP forum.
Sent from my Thunderbolt
07-06-2013, 09:05 AM
What else do you like in rfg; heat transfer; tech trouble shooting?
07-06-2013, 11:40 AM
I can't think of anything I Don't like in refrigeration.
Of course I would always prefer to do my own design, install it, pipe it, make it the best it can be, impress my friends, bask in the glow of my own admiration, and so forth - but more often I am left re-working what others have cobbled into more or less a pile of dog poop into some semblance of reasonable working order.
My work is really about solving problems. People have them - they present them to me - I solve them. On a related note; it has been somewhat weird over the years, although I guess in one way it Does make sense, in that my customers also often come to me to ask about solving all kinds of problems that are not refrigeration related. Construction, personal relationships, health issues, doctors, dentists, lawyers, business operations, real estate development, advertising, all kinds of things.
Originally Posted by GT1980
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.
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