unhappy geo owner

[skolacin]

I have a water furnace ndv049 4 ton loop field how many kWh should this thing be using in june when It did not need to run my total was 303, this December the avg temp was 21 and my usage was 1744 and it iS not even that cold. I had the out to evaluate it and they claim it is working fine. It seem to draw a lot of power when it comes on and is not all that quite. It does have the dwh. Any insight you can give would be great.
thank you
sharon

[WF_Inc]

skolacin,

We will be more than happy to look into your concerns. Please provide your model number, serial number, and the name of your installing contractor.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[skolacin]

Some one from the company is doing that thank you

[skolacin]

Well I send the info the responce was The Geolink report you received from your contractor states that you may be paying around $1589 a year to operate your WaterFurnace. IN 2010, your total electric charges were $1169, which is less than the anticipated cost for the WaterFurnace. The WaterFurnace you have was purchased with electric backup for emergency heat. The gas charges for your entire year were $403 which averages to be around $33 dollars a month, which we will assume is for your gas hot water heater.
The dealer that purchased your equipment is still a customer of ours. The dealers listed on the website are simply a list of dealers that purchase the most equipment from us.
We do not see an issue with your utility bills and will be unable to assist you in this matter.


All they did was look at my totals for the year. If they had looked over what was sent them they would have known that the gas amounts for Jan 157 / Feb 114 were not for hot water they were for temp heat. THE COST OF 1589 INCLUDED THE USE OF CONTINUES FAN AND ELECTRIC HOT WATER 313 AND 37
So est cost is only 1239. Also According to rep aux heat should only need to come on in extreme conditions. That is another 105 of the est.
so from march of 2010 through the bill I just recieved for jan 2011 The total is 1278.00 for 11 months. My issue began in december when I felt something was not right with my system. It was in stage 1& 2 very often and the house just did not feel warm the avg temp outside was 21. I became concerned because it was pretty costly all ready and not that cold out . At suggestion of a rep I had a master dealer evaluate my system at a cost of 233 and they said very thing was fine and the rep said " the system performance and the machines were performing at our above specification. The unit has been runing in stage one most of the time since the evaluation. It is running most of the time. It is not all that quiet. just yesterday the themostat was flashing again so I went to check the unit and the status light was blinking green. after a short time the unit kicked on and the termostat quit flashing. Just feel like
something is off and wondering if unit was sized right as when I was looking through my paper work the heat load calulations differed in the est I obtained before purchasing unit for my new home I am in wisconsin #ndv049a111ctl, 091202053
thanks for any input.
THANKS

[notquiteamish63]

Hi there. I have been working on WF equipment for 23 years and your usage does not seem unusual for the outside temps and size of unit you describe. The one thing that did not sound normal was the flashing stat with no fault on the unit display. If I had to guess what this is about I would guess that you have a White/Rogers version WF tstat that is sometimes failing to send a stage 2 compressor signal before it sends a stage 3 signal down to the unit. The unit flashes the t-stat saying basically "I got a stage 1 signal and a stage 3 signal but no stage 2 signal, this does not make sense to me". The unit then upstages to stage 3 which is electric back-up along with the compressor. This stage 3 probably would not have been necessary if we just could have gotten stage 2 compressor to activate first. If I am guessing correctly about this, you will only see the stat flashing this code when it is calling for stage 3. The stat is calling for stage 3 when the +2 is blinking on the display of the stat. If you can verify that this is your situation, then call your contractor and have him replace the white/rogers stat with a united technologies version wf stat. I have never had a utec stat do this and I have probably replaced more than 20 of the white/rogers stats for this very problem. Good luck.

[WF_Inc]

skolacin,

Could you tell us who at WaterFurnace you are working with so that we may look into your inquiry further?

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[skolacin]

My unit does not go into stage 1&2 very often since they came out to evaluate in late December. In December when the weather was warmer it was in stage 1&2 pretty often. That was the first time the temp on the termostat was blinking. This month when it happen I went to check the unit in did not appear to be running, the flashing on the thermostat stopped the same time the unit came on it was stage #1 I will pay more attention to what is showing on the thermostat if it happens again.
WF you can email at skolacin@yahoo.com I will send you the name

[WF_Inc]

Skolacin,

We have reviewed your utility bills, as well as the WaterFurnace Energy Analysis provided to you by your contractor. According to the energy analysis, your contractor has estimated your heating and cooling costs to be $1589 for the year. According to your utility bills, your total cost for electric was $1169, which includes lights, television, washer/dryer, etc.

We have been informed that you have electric back up heat; therefore, we are unsure what the need for gas is. Our equipment does not use fossil fuel.

At this point, your total electric bill is more than $400 less than what your contractor had estimated it would cost to heat and cool your home. Unfortunately, we are unsure what you mean when you say your electric bills are high. If you have additional information, we will be more than happy to review it. According to the information provided, your total electric bill is $400 less than your contractor’s estimated cost to operate your WaterFurnace unit.

[skolacin]

To notquiteeamish63 thank you for taking the time to provide me with your input. I just think I made A large mistake in buying a water furnace.

WF I understand that my bills are what they are. But it bothers me that you continue to say that my cost est are 1589 when in fact if you would look at the est you would see that 313 is est of ele.water heat which I do not have. I have a heat on demand that is gas for back up. Also I do not use continueous fan $37. Which would make the est only 1239.

[WF_Inc]

skolacin,

According to the WaterFurnace Energy Analysis, your contractor estimated $414 for the total hot water operating costs, as well as $37 for the continuous fan operating cost. After subtracting these costs, your total estimated operating cost is $1138 to heat and cool your home. This is $31 more than the total shown on your utility bills. Please remember that total shown on your utility bill includes lights, washer/dryer, television, etc. Again we are more than happy to review any additional information you may have; however, we are still unsure why you feel your utility bills are high.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[SkyHeating]

To notquiteeamish63 thank you for taking the time to provide me with your input. I just think I made A large mistake in buying a water furnace.

WF I understand that my bills are what they are. But it bothers me that you continue to say that my cost est are 1589 when in fact if you would look at the est you would see that 313 is est of ele.water heat which I do not have. I have a heat on demand that is gas for back up. Also I do not use continueous fan $37. Which would make the est only 1239.

Your utility usage to me seems less than what was estimated, I think your system is operating quite well unless I am missing something. Your "estimated" costs and these do vary by year are 1239, if your TOTAL utility bills were at $1800 I think you would be doing well, but being your total utility is close to their estimate means you are operating very efficiently.

[perryaire]

There are many factors that can impact your usage, all of them would need to be considered.
Your bills sound reasonable to me for what you have and what you were promised.

[mstrblstr3]

If you are going to average around a hundred bucks a month for electric, than you have a fantastic system. I also have a 4 ton system with the same setup and i'm double that. My house is twenty years old now but I built with 2x6 walls, wet blown cellulose and Anderson windows. I would hate to guess at how much of a gas bill I would have if I didn't have my waterfurnace.

[mikeyflowerguy]

how is the control wiring for these units??.....is it similar to the Carrier Infinity, 2 wire comm system, or is it modular, like the Honeywell Pro 8000's??
I had a customer once that "insisted" that a similar control "disfunction" was apparent, yet, while we were there, nothing struck us as being out of place...just asking, and I'll give you the rest of the story....

[luv2cruiserccl]

is there a separate meter just for the geothermal so you know to the kw what you are actually using? Or are these just estimates?

[skolacin]

The highest electric bill with the unit not running at all is 50.00 those were my bills I can hear the unit kick on and watch my lights dim. but when it was checked out they claim it was working above expectations. I have thought about just putting a meter to register the amount the geo unit alone uses But I have allready spent A lot on this thing

[barbar]

Hi,

I am not from states, nor do I have any relationship with any involved, however I do have some level of expertise within this field. (I do not know your system at all, but that does not matter)
I do not like to see unhappy costumers.
I am struggling a little with what you think your problem with.

So clarify

Your contractor, gave an estimate on how much power/cost you would use in a typical year for heating and cooling your house (was your domestic hot water included in this)

The unit has now been running for time. "Does it keep you warm or cool when required?"

Now you have had some power bills, these bill are higher than you expected and/or higher that what was predicted by the contractor.

Is this your complaint?

[barbar]

I have had a look at your first post.
This indicates that you are using on average 2Kw every hour for heating your home. i do not know your home so, I can not say it this is good or bad.
This is easy to prove if your system is working well or not.
Do you own a hair drier?
It will have an electrical rating on it. If lucky it will be 2Kw, more than likely slightly higher (this does not matter). So the same average power you are using.
Place the hair drier in the middle of your home (somewhere safe) so it is just blowing into thin air.
Now turn off your heating system, completely. "NO other heating is to be used apart from the hair drier"
Leave like this for a week. (same power used as before)
If your home on average stays warm (you will have a few cool spots because the air is not moving around perfectly), then there is a problem with your heating system, if you house becomes cold, then more than likely your heating system is OK.
When the unit turns on and the light dip, this is to do with the size of your and/or neighborhood power supply
Let us know how you went on!