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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8

    unhappy geo owner

    I have a water furnace ndv049 4 ton loop field how many kWh should this thing be using in june when It did not need to run my total was 303, this December the avg temp was 21 and my usage was 1744 and it iS not even that cold. I had the out to evaluate it and they claim it is working fine. It seem to draw a lot of power when it comes on and is not all that quite. It does have the dwh. Any insight you can give would be great.
    thank you
    sharon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    skolacin,

    We will be more than happy to look into your concerns. Please provide your model number, serial number, and the name of your installing contractor.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8
    Some one from the company is doing that thank you

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8

    update

    Well I send the info the responce was The Geolink report you received from your contractor states that you may be paying around $1589 a year to operate your WaterFurnace. IN 2010, your total electric charges were $1169, which is less than the anticipated cost for the WaterFurnace. The WaterFurnace you have was purchased with electric backup for emergency heat. The gas charges for your entire year were $403 which averages to be around $33 dollars a month, which we will assume is for your gas hot water heater.
    The dealer that purchased your equipment is still a customer of ours. The dealers listed on the website are simply a list of dealers that purchase the most equipment from us.
    We do not see an issue with your utility bills and will be unable to assist you in this matter.


    All they did was look at my totals for the year. If they had looked over what was sent them they would have known that the gas amounts for Jan 157 / Feb 114 were not for hot water they were for temp heat. THE COST OF 1589 INCLUDED THE USE OF CONTINUES FAN AND ELECTRIC HOT WATER 313 AND 37
    So est cost is only 1239. Also According to rep aux heat should only need to come on in extreme conditions. That is another 105 of the est.
    so from march of 2010 through the bill I just recieved for jan 2011 The total is 1278.00 for 11 months. My issue began in december when I felt something was not right with my system. It was in stage 1& 2 very often and the house just did not feel warm the avg temp outside was 21. I became concerned because it was pretty costly all ready and not that cold out . At suggestion of a rep I had a master dealer evaluate my system at a cost of 233 and they said very thing was fine and the rep said " the system performance and the machines were performing at our above specification. The unit has been runing in stage one most of the time since the evaluation. It is running most of the time. It is not all that quiet. just yesterday the themostat was flashing again so I went to check the unit and the status light was blinking green. after a short time the unit kicked on and the termostat quit flashing. Just feel like
    something is off and wondering if unit was sized right as when I was looking through my paper work the heat load calulations differed in the est I obtained before purchasing unit for my new home I am in wisconsin #ndv049a111ctl, 091202053
    thanks for any input.
    THANKS

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lancaster county PA.
    Posts
    34

    Smile almost normal

    Hi there. I have been working on WF equipment for 23 years and your usage does not seem unusual for the outside temps and size of unit you describe. The one thing that did not sound normal was the flashing stat with no fault on the unit display. If I had to guess what this is about I would guess that you have a White/Rogers version WF tstat that is sometimes failing to send a stage 2 compressor signal before it sends a stage 3 signal down to the unit. The unit flashes the t-stat saying basically "I got a stage 1 signal and a stage 3 signal but no stage 2 signal, this does not make sense to me". The unit then upstages to stage 3 which is electric back-up along with the compressor. This stage 3 probably would not have been necessary if we just could have gotten stage 2 compressor to activate first. If I am guessing correctly about this, you will only see the stat flashing this code when it is calling for stage 3. The stat is calling for stage 3 when the +2 is blinking on the display of the stat. If you can verify that this is your situation, then call your contractor and have him replace the white/rogers stat with a united technologies version wf stat. I have never had a utec stat do this and I have probably replaced more than 20 of the white/rogers stats for this very problem. Good luck.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    skolacin,

    Could you tell us who at WaterFurnace you are working with so that we may look into your inquiry further?

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8
    My unit does not go into stage 1&2 very often since they came out to evaluate in late December. In December when the weather was warmer it was in stage 1&2 pretty often. That was the first time the temp on the termostat was blinking. This month when it happen I went to check the unit in did not appear to be running, the flashing on the thermostat stopped the same time the unit came on it was stage #1 I will pay more attention to what is showing on the thermostat if it happens again.
    WF you can email at skolacin@yahoo.com I will send you the name

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    Skolacin,

    We have reviewed your utility bills, as well as the WaterFurnace Energy Analysis provided to you by your contractor. According to the energy analysis, your contractor has estimated your heating and cooling costs to be $1589 for the year. According to your utility bills, your total cost for electric was $1169, which includes lights, television, washer/dryer, etc.

    We have been informed that you have electric back up heat; therefore, we are unsure what the need for gas is. Our equipment does not use fossil fuel.

    At this point, your total electric bill is more than $400 less than what your contractor had estimated it would cost to heat and cool your home. Unfortunately, we are unsure what you mean when you say your electric bills are high. If you have additional information, we will be more than happy to review it. According to the information provided, your total electric bill is $400 less than your contractor’s estimated cost to operate your WaterFurnace unit.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8
    To notquiteeamish63 thank you for taking the time to provide me with your input. I just think I made A large mistake in buying a water furnace.

    WF I understand that my bills are what they are. But it bothers me that you continue to say that my cost est are 1589 when in fact if you would look at the est you would see that 313 is est of ele.water heat which I do not have. I have a heat on demand that is gas for back up. Also I do not use continueous fan $37. Which would make the est only 1239.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    skolacin,

    According to the WaterFurnace Energy Analysis, your contractor estimated $414 for the total hot water operating costs, as well as $37 for the continuous fan operating cost. After subtracting these costs, your total estimated operating cost is $1138 to heat and cool your home. This is $31 more than the total shown on your utility bills. Please remember that total shown on your utility bill includes lights, washer/dryer, television, etc. Again we are more than happy to review any additional information you may have; however, we are still unsure why you feel your utility bills are high.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Portland OR
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by skolacin View Post
    To notquiteeamish63 thank you for taking the time to provide me with your input. I just think I made A large mistake in buying a water furnace.

    WF I understand that my bills are what they are. But it bothers me that you continue to say that my cost est are 1589 when in fact if you would look at the est you would see that 313 is est of ele.water heat which I do not have. I have a heat on demand that is gas for back up. Also I do not use continueous fan $37. Which would make the est only 1239.
    Your utility usage to me seems less than what was estimated, I think your system is operating quite well unless I am missing something. Your "estimated" costs and these do vary by year are 1239, if your TOTAL utility bills were at $1800 I think you would be doing well, but being your total utility is close to their estimate means you are operating very efficiently.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    93
    There are many factors that can impact your usage, all of them would need to be considered.
    Your bills sound reasonable to me for what you have and what you were promised.

  13. #13

    Pretty good utility bills

    If you are going to average around a hundred bucks a month for electric, than you have a fantastic system. I also have a 4 ton system with the same setup and i'm double that. My house is twenty years old now but I built with 2x6 walls, wet blown cellulose and Anderson windows. I would hate to guess at how much of a gas bill I would have if I didn't have my waterfurnace.

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