Getting more risky?

[maxair]

I was watching a special on bankruptcy?They say when
the current bankruptcy bill now just made into law
hits the small business will be felt by everyone thats
strugling.From what I read in the bankruptcy reform it is
going to be the hard or not possible to squash certain debts (debts typical to a person going into business)in
bankruptcy court.This in imho is a hard blow to the
little guy whos tring to make ends meet.I meen I have
thought about starting my own business but if I failed
I dont think I should be hounded for the rest of my
life by creditors.Think about it. We have all seen small
guys starting up using credit cards to get thru the hard
times.

There will be no caps on interest for past due amounts
were talkin about 30 percent apr.If a man was not careful
he could end up being a working slave for the rest of
his life to lenders garnishments.Whats sickning is the
argument for this reform is people living beyond there
meens getting 10 cards maxing them out and bankrupting
every five years.At a close inspection of the reform these
people will be virtualy untouched as long as you dont own
a home.I meen with contracting profit margins so slim
going into business is a gamble.I wonder how many are going to loose?

[billva]

[Edited by billva on 03-26-2005 at 10:08 PM]

[dec]

Well in my opinion if they make it hard to file bankrupcy then maybe that will make it better that they cant file it on me to get out of the work I do for homeowners. I have no simpathy for someone that thinks they can use it ti get out of what they owe no matter if they are a business or a customer. If you are worried about not being able to file bankrupcy if you fail in business ,I think your probably in a lossing battle anyway. I dont think that shows the right attitude of being honest enough to do what it takes to do things right and to do what you tell the customer you are going to do. The minute you get a job you think you might have under bid or that you made a mistake on you will start cutting corners or bailing out. If you are not willing to stand behind your word of what you owe or what you promised, your going to fail in business.

[centralflinstaller]

i spoke with a lawyer about the bill and was told it's directed more to big business and ceo's with millons that go into a new realm or field and go upside down they want out and as the law is now can easily start over again by filing a backruptcy. he said that it would have little to no effect on the avg joe like me.. is it a good thing i think so, should someone be bailed out over and over no but people make mistakes and to be given a chance to start over so someday you can get a decent percentage rate on a house,car or loan for a child's education i think it's very fair. i'm sure i'll get slammed but it's my right as an american.to have an oppinon that is ................

[wallynut]

."I meen I have
thought about starting my own business but if I failed
I dont think I should be hounded for the rest of my
life by creditors"

Sorry pal, but if you fail in business those creditors are people like us working 24-7 trying to support are families also.
Dont borrow if you cant pay it back.

[maxair]

You in your own business?If so and you have a bullet
proof plan tell us about it.I seen lots of friends
in our industry work 24-7 not just talk it.I seen it with
a tech I worked with for several years.Went out on his
own did first rate work,went to siminars followed all
the rules and just as he stared to see the fruits of
his labor boom all went of pieces. Not because of his
many very satisfied customers or his unbreakable work
ethic .He had a heat attack under a house under went
triple bypass surgery.His heart lost 40 percent capcity.
He was covered under his wifes insurance but like you
and most americans he did not realize how much a 25%
percent deductible added up to be.

Tack on all the out of plan drugs and we dont pay this
and we dont cover that.He was using credit cards to get
by.Wallynut you sound like alot of uncompassinate types
until your up there with a similar situation.Then your
type always crys louder than anybody else.I personly
admire anybody with guts to try it on there own and
if they try and dont make it they deserve a fresh start.

Centralfinstaller I dont know who you talked to
but try http://www.judithswift.com/laws.htm .look under
changes in bankruptcy.


Less than 3 percent of people that bankrupt do it
to try and fraud a creditor.61 percent are due to
medical illness.So I would research facts before
blurting off work frustation wallynut.

[trane]

Originally posted by dec
Well in my opinion if they make it hard to file bankrupcy then maybe that will make it better that they cant file it on me to get out of the work I do for homeowners. I have no simpathy for someone that thinks they can use it ti get out of what they owe no matter if they are a business or a customer. If you are worried about not being able to file bankrupcy if you fail in business ,I think your probably in a lossing battle anyway. I dont think that shows the right attitude of being honest enough to do what it takes to do things right and to do what you tell the customer you are going to do. The minute you get a job you think you might have under bid or that you made a mistake on you will start cutting corners or bailing out. If you are not willing to stand behind your word of what you owe or what you promised, your going to fail in business.

Well said and I agree. Health problems or not if you owe the money you should have to pay it back.

[oilie hands]

If you have to borrow to go into business, you're doomed before you get started. there is too much overhead and headaches. I found it's better to work for someone and buy tools and get a reputation for a few yrs, take it slow and live within your means and just take on the work you can do. My first shop was an old box truck.
It saves a lot of money to start out with everything paid for and also have a wife the gets medical insurance for the family at her job. I have been taking 2 Zantac a day for yrs and the insurance paid for it until last month, now it's an over the counter drug and insurance will no longer pay for it, but if i was jack the ripper and wanted Viagra, they would pay for that.
Also when you give credit, it can drag you down.
one time the guy that i worked for got a call from someone he didn't know to charge a tank of fuel oil. The boss said to him, would you go up on main street and let someone that you don't know borrow 400.? the guy said no, well the boss said, that is what you are asking me to do. case closed.
I do know a person that thought he was screwing the credit card people, he settled a 40000. debt for something like 8000. He also found out later that the 32000. was income and the IRS wanted their taxes.

[Edited by oilie hands on 03-28-2005 at 07:24 AM]

[billygoat22]

My parents had the medical issue happen to them. My father fell off a 2-storey house and couldn't work for months.
They sold their house and sixty acres, and worked for a number of years to pay off their debts.
They could have taken bankruptcy, but that would be like stealing from thosae they owed money, because they were able to pay off an inconvient debt.

[wallynut]

Maxair

I do own my own Buisness, small three man and seceratary
for bookkeeping.
I don,t have a bullet proof plan other than 25 years in the trade before I started in buisness on my own as one man
operation doing service and installation by my-self.
This is where the 24-7 came in when I first started.I don,t want you to think I have no sympathy for anyone but the reality of Life is what it is, People can get sick and have tough times, My wife came down with Breast Cancer three years ago,She is in her early fifties and now doing well.These are all things you have to take into consideration on pricing jobs, You must have Medical insurance for yourself and family, Don,t be afraid to charge what you have to charge.Remember no one will worry about your Medical situation or future retirement other than yourself so make sure you can do this.
Expierience by far is the best teacher.Nobody owes anybody a living, Don,t look to UNCLE, Do it on your own.

[reb77]

I'm sure we all know or know of those people that have taken advantage of the system in the past. I know one couple that have done it twice--they also have a new pool, new garage and new cars to go in it. I'm just getting by which becomes harder all the time when people do the bankruptcy deal and owe you money that you will never see. Then they'll wonder why when you refuse to provide any more service to them!
Just my two cents worth--we've been hit at least 5 times in as many years with customers owing and then filing bankruptcy. And, not a one of them was owing to medical. This is a small town, everyone knows everyone else's business...

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally, I'm delighted that the new law passed. The existing law is 'way too generous in letting people off the hook. The new law really only targets people in the upper half of the income level ---it's still letting people off too easily.

As to medical debt--- tough. My personal opinion is that people have a special obligation to pay off debts to the health care providers who perhaps saved your life or the lives of people close to you.



Seattle Pioneer

[berad]

I'll tell you a story about a 19 year old hvac apprentice. We all know what kind of money they make, right? In 1994 I was 19, married, had one baby girl. My wife couldn't work do to health problems from the birth of our daughter. My mother-in-law passed away. She was divorced. She died of lung cancer. She left everything to my wife and I. That amounted to $20,000 cash, a van with $8,000 owed on it, a house with $32,000 and two years back taxes owed on it. All of the furniture and possessions. Everything including the debt that went with it. Anything with equity had liens attached for the medical bills. My wife and I were young and stupid and didn't know much about the world. We sold our mobil home and moved into the house, then discovered it had back taxes and not to mention the payments and upkeep were beyond our means. The cash the mother-in-law left us was gone in a month getting everything out of the rears and paying debts that were left to us along with the assets.We ended up about $10,000 in the hole and living in a house and driving a van we had no hope to afford. The van was repossessed, which was a relief realy. We were in a hole with no way out. To top it off I was in a car accident and it was not my fault. It was ruled my fault later when I discovered the insurance was lapsed and my wife didn't tell me. In Illinois if you are in a car accident and don't have insurance the accident is legaly your fault because without insurance you should not have been on the road in the first place. I was sued and of course lost because I had no insurance and it was legaly my fault even though another driver ran a stopsign smashed into me and totaled my truck. I was off work six weeks with a broken collar bone and now owed another $25,000. My wages were garnished when I went back to work, by the way we wouldn't have eaten during that time I was off if it weren't for my church, it was hopless. I struggled along that way for four years. I filed bankruptcy in 1998, ended up in a smaller junkier mobil home than I had before. Life lessons learned at the school of hardknocks. That's the story of bankrupt Brad.

[Edited by berad on 03-29-2005 at 10:49 PM]