R22 - Page 2
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Thread: R22

  1. #14
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    Apr 2004
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    April 14th in Chesapeake at Gemaire. Call them to schedule. The last class was cancelled due to lack of interest. Amazing isnt it?

  2. #15
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    Mar 2005
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    Yes I would like to know if you are comming to this area anytime soon

  3. #16
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    Apr 2004
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    I asked your area but didnt see a response....

    Richmond - April 12
    Chesapeake - April 14
    Roanoke - April 19

    Contact Local Gemaire Branch.

    Dont wait until the last miute to sign up, I'll cancel if I dont have enough by a week or 2 before class is scheduled.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Delaware
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    1,229

    R410a

    Sorry, Doc & all you other 410a advocates, I'll switch when I have to & not before, unless they come up with something better than 410a.

    Simpleman: If I'm not mistaken, Doc is from the Va.Beach/Norfolk area.













    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

  5. #18
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    Apr 2004
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    No I am not, and good luck with the waiting until its too late thing.

  6. #19
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    Sep 2002
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    3,708
    Originally posted by docholiday
    April 14th in Chesapeake at Gemaire. Call them to schedule. The last class was cancelled due to lack of interest. Amazing isnt it?
    That does not surpise me at all Doc,everytime I sign the boys and myself up for a class it gets cancel.

    Never herd of Gemaire do you have a Number?


  7. #20
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    Jul 2001
    Location
    Delaware
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    1,229

    Ruffled feathers

    Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers & like I said, I have gotten my 410a certification from 3 different manufacturers of equipment. I just don't like the stuff & hope something else comes along that is not a blend or at least a true azeotropic blend.
    Sorry about the location, must have you confused with someone else.
    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dothan, Al
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    R-410a is a zeotropic blend - it does have the possibility of fractionation as well as temp. glide. That is why it must be charged as a liquid.
    Even though due to the percentages, it is not as sensitive to fractionation as others, it will still fractionate.
    And the only, truly reliable, way of properly charging the system is to remove existing charge & recharge by weight.
    And, of course, any 410 recovered from a system should be
    reclaimed as the tech will not know if fractionation has occurred.

    If there is a system leak, how would the tech know if fractionation has occurred and what percentage of refrigerants remain. If he recovers the refrigerant left, then the tech still cannot be sure of the percentages within the recovery tank.

    And this is one reason, I don't want to go to 410
    I will wait until a drop-in replacement for R-22 has been
    approved.

    Also with higher pressures, I believe that more leaking system will occur, and there will be problems with recharges.

    This is only my opinion

  9. #22
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    Jul 2001
    Location
    Delaware
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    Bornriding

    I could not have said it better myself, probably not as well.
    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

  10. #23
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    Apr 2004
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    ok...do as you wish.

    a leak is a leak and pressure is irrelevent.

    From the Genetron Website....

    "Because it behaves like an azeotrope, R-410A is easy to service in the field. It won't meaningfully change composition if an air conditioner suffers a refrigerant leak, and R-410A can be easily recovered and reclaimed, giving it a substantial advantage over other R-22 replacements such as R-407C or R-417A. R-410A has been given an A1 safety classification by ASHRAE. "

    I feel sorry for those who cannot acknowlege changes that WILL happen. No drop in replacement will ever be developed and accepted by any equipment manufacturer at least prior to the change mandated.

    Apparently the classes you have attended have been sales classes and not true training classes or taught by someone who is misinformed. For that I am sorry. I am not advocating any refrigerant, I am however advocating that we all keep up with industry changes and holding out will not change anything but the ability to profit and survive in a changing market.

    You'll have to look Gemaire up in the book. A/C Equipment Distributor.



  11. #24
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    Apr 2004
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    An added note of interest....


    From Honeywell, makers of Genetron Refrigerants....

    2015 Reductions
    Some dealers wrongly believe that R-22 for servicing existing systems will not be affected until 2020. Actually, the EPA is required to implement additional regulations to reduce the limit on consumption of ozone-depleting HCFCs such as R-22 by 90% after 2014.

    Although the U.S. demand for R-22 for servicing existing systems is likely to decrease by that date, the available HCFC allocation will have to be used to supply refrigerants (R-22, R-124, R-142b, MP39, MP66, HP80, and others) and solvents (HCFC-225ca, HCFC-225cb).

    Most new air conditioning and refrigeration equipment being installed today is expected to still be in service in 2015, so building owners and consumers need to take into consideration the potential for future shortages of HCFC products when considering installing new R-22 or other HCFC-based equipment. This is particularly important if systems sold today are covered by warranties or service contracts.

    Although regulations allow for continued production of R-22 for service through 2019, there is no guarantee that the quantities that will be produced or made available will be sufficient to meet U.S. market demand. Individuals and companies who make claims guaranteeing sufficient supply of HCFC-22 until 2020 do so at their own risk

    Further reading... http://www.410a.com/myths/03.html

    [Edited by docholiday on 03-26-2005 at 03:56 PM]

  12. #25
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    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dothan, Al
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    Doc

    Did not mean to indicate in any waythat what yo said was incorrect.
    Just relaying that any refrigerant in the 400 series is a zeotropic blend. All zeo's have fractionation & temp glide ( can't help it ). However 410 may not be at a mixture that will break apart easily.

    And I absolutely agree that manufacturers will never recommend a drop-in replacement as that would hurt their resell of new equipment. They don't want you to repair an R-22 system, they want you to replace it. Repairs - they don't make money !!! Replacements make them money.
    Would not be good 'business sense' to recommend anything but replacement.

    Manufacturers have their own reasons for their recommendations, but one thing for sure, their recommendations are not made with our benefit in mind.

    So, excuse me if I don't believe everything that a manufacturer distributes, as I don't believe everything (or none at all ) of what the government tells me.
    I guess I'm just a skeptic.

  13. #26
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    Apr 2004
    Location
    Des Plaines,IL
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    R22 Drop in replacements

    There is also something else to consider. Most of the "drop in" replacements are HFC which use POE oil. Most R22 systems including the newer ones still have the mineral or AB oil, so even if one did decide to retrofit a R22 system, flushing out the oil would be a must.

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