ReplyYea, its well with in reason.
Regular Guest
I've received a number of estimates from 5 contractors to replace both my furnace and ac. I'm inclined to use a410 and all but one quoted me for such a system. The one contractor quoted me an r-22 unit and said if I wanted the a410 he could do it but the price difference is $1000.
Is this a realistic number for a 5 ton ac with about 20 feet of line length?
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Yea, its well with in reason.
Professional Member*
I would say, look at the R22 bid, and get more bids on these while you can. Compare SEER rating as well.10,12 seers wont be available next year. Buy your AC this year. Next year eqip. prices will double. (Thanx to regs. good or bad) its the law.
Regular Guest
All the bids have been for 13 SEER. I'm inclined towards A410 because after 2010 I'm assuming the price of R-22 will be higher than A410. Realistically, given I choose a quality installer, I won't have to worry about recharging the system on my dime until then... Is this a good assumption?
Professional Member*
whatever gas you have in the system is prone to leak. puron operates at higher pressures. R22 is lower. The installer is your man here. Pressure is the bout. R22 will be available for several years. Do you want to pay for the cost up front is the question?
Professional Member*
And yes, thats a good assumtion.
Professional Member*
R-22 will still be manufactured for use in existing systems untill the year 2020, and there will be plenty to go around for servicing systems for years after that
Professional Member*
Thanx mark beiser. see Im still learning , just not dead.
R 12 no go.
fat eddie. lets here from you now
Regular Guest
HCFC PHASEOUT SCHEDULE
The third and fourth columns of the table show how the US will meet the international obligations described in the first two columns. (third and fourth colums are)
2010 - No production and improting of HCFC-142B AND HCFC-22, except for use in equipment manufactured before 1/1/2010 (so no production or importing for NEW equipment that uses these refrigerants)
2015 - No production and no importing of any HCFCs, except for use as refrigerants in equipment manufactured before 1/1/2020
2020 - No production and no importing of HCFC - 142b and HCFC -22
2030 - No production and no importing of any HCFCs
Written by EPA's Stratospheric Protection Division-Last updated on June 17th, 1998
Taken from pg 162 of Refrigerant Reference Guide 2000
Now, this doesn't indicate what the manufacturers WILL/CAN charge for R-22 only that they can make it till 2030 if I read this right.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
No production of 22 as of 2020.
Like r12, r22 will become more expensive.
Professional Member
I was under the understanding that what MikeJ printed out was not yet the 'law'.
It still had to be voted for or ratified or something, but as of yet, was not a certaintee ?????
Professional Member
Am I missing something, or does it seem like alot of people are scared of 410a. It was introduced over 5 years ago, and wouldnt have been put into use without extinsive testing. When inatslled properly, a 410a system has a LOW failure rate. The company I work for averages about 30 410a systems a year, and our customers are happy. Time to face the facts, R22 is going byebye, just like R12 did, it's only a matter of time. If I had my choice, I would use nothing but 410a. Just my opinion.
"If you can't fix it, don't break it."
Professional Member
How is an r-410 system better than an R-22 system ????
Regular Guest
"How is an r-410 system better than an R-22 system ???? "
Suva® 410A
(R-410A; 9100) Replaces R-22
Suva® 410A from DuPont, formerly known as Suva® 9100, is a long-term HFC replacement for R-22 in positive displacement residential and commercial air-conditioning equipment. It is a higher-pressure refrigerant than R-22 and should be used only in equipment specifically designed for R-410A. Suva® 410A offers improved performance over R-22.
Benefits
Higher Capacity Equipment: Equipment designed for Suva® 410A has up to 60% greater capacity than current R-22 equipment.
Easy Servicing: Can be repeatedly topped off, leak after leak.
Safe and Easy to Use: A1/A1 ASHRAE safety classification, EPA SNAP accepted.
...from the dupont website
Professional Member*
R410a doesn't scare me.
What scares me is the competency of the new construction contractors in my area.
Most of them seem to barely be able to get an R-22 system put together clean and dry enough for it to work for more than a few years.
I really doubt many of them will make significant changes to thier installation practices, so I can see there being MASSIVE problems in the future.
Sure, as people get fed up with thier installing contractors, and warranties expire on systems, it will equate to more work and money for me, but cleaning up other contractors messes gets old.
Having to document things and give depositions for law suits is anoying too.
Professional Member
I agree 100% mark, we see that here too.
"If you can't fix it, don't break it."
Professional Member
Go here to compare R-22 with R-410A
http://www.bacharach-training.com/norm/410.htm
Professional Member
Bottom line is this rocco, spend the money and get the R410a system, you'll be happy with it. As far as the price difference, I think that would depend on your location and contractor.
"If you can't fix it, don't break it."
Professional Member*
rocco, I would recomend a good contractor to do whichever system you choose. Even though I have yet to install a puron system, I know they work well if properly installed. Same for R-22 systems, and either wil give you greif if not.
Niether system should ever have to be "topped off". If this does happen you had a bad install from the start. Dont be worried about the refrigerent cost on either side,Worry about the labor costs to repair the problem that you should'nt have ever had.
Im just saying that R-22 is still more economical than 410-A in equip.costs. Refrigerant will be available for several yrs. at low cost. Some puron dealers that I know tell customers lies regarding this to push thier equipment, and that chaps my a''. R-22 is being slowly phased out, and R410-A isnt 100% envirmentally friendly either. Cost wise today, a good contractor can install and maintain R-22 equip., at lower costs to consumers
Regular Guest
Maybe I'm getting too old but I remember "them" telling me that when gasoline went over a dollar a gallon that it wouldn't rise much more than that. So now I am paying over $2 a gallon and heating fuel has also risen beyond projections.
So if you believe DuPont and the others will keep making R22 much cheaper than an ozone friendly refrigerant, well, I think you are dreaming. The good ole government will pressure the phaseout. R410a units are more efficient also.
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