"How is an r-410 system better than an R-22 system ???? "
(R-410A; 9100) Replaces R-22
Suva® 410A from DuPont, formerly known as Suva® 9100, is a long-term HFC replacement for R-22 in positive displacement residential and commercial air-conditioning equipment. It is a higher-pressure refrigerant than R-22 and should be used only in equipment specifically designed for R-410A. Suva® 410A offers improved performance over R-22.
Higher Capacity Equipment: Equipment designed for Suva® 410A has up to 60% greater capacity than current R-22 equipment.
Easy Servicing: Can be repeatedly topped off, leak after leak.
Safe and Easy to Use: A1/A1 ASHRAE safety classification, EPA SNAP accepted.
...from the dupont website
R410a doesn't scare me.
What scares me is the competency of the new construction contractors in my area.
Most of them seem to barely be able to get an R-22 system put together clean and dry enough for it to work for more than a few years.
I really doubt many of them will make significant changes to thier installation practices, so I can see there being MASSIVE problems in the future.
Sure, as people get fed up with thier installing contractors, and warranties expire on systems, it will equate to more work and money for me, but cleaning up other contractors messes gets old.
Having to document things and give depositions for law suits is anoying too.
I agree 100% mark, we see that here too.
"If you can't fix it, don't break it."
Bottom line is this rocco, spend the money and get the R410a system, you'll be happy with it. As far as the price difference, I think that would depend on your location and contractor.
"If you can't fix it, don't break it."
rocco, I would recomend a good contractor to do whichever system you choose. Even though I have yet to install a puron system, I know they work well if properly installed. Same for R-22 systems, and either wil give you greif if not.
Niether system should ever have to be "topped off". If this does happen you had a bad install from the start. Dont be worried about the refrigerent cost on either side,Worry about the labor costs to repair the problem that you should'nt have ever had.
Im just saying that R-22 is still more economical than 410-A in equip.costs. Refrigerant will be available for several yrs. at low cost. Some puron dealers that I know tell customers lies regarding this to push thier equipment, and that chaps my a''. R-22 is being slowly phased out, and R410-A isnt 100% envirmentally friendly either. Cost wise today, a good contractor can install and maintain R-22 equip., at lower costs to consumers
never say never
Maybe I'm getting too old but I remember "them" telling me that when gasoline went over a dollar a gallon that it wouldn't rise much more than that. So now I am paying over $2 a gallon and heating fuel has also risen beyond projections.
So if you believe DuPont and the others will keep making R22 much cheaper than an ozone friendly refrigerant, well, I think you are dreaming. The good ole government will pressure the phaseout. R410a units are more efficient also.
R-22 VS A410 - Cost difference
Thanks Contactor and everyone else for the comments. I am going with the 410 but not that particular contractor. I called the other contractors I'm interested in just to confirm they estimated for a 410 install - they did. What had me wondering was the guys who priced 410 from the get go were already better than the R-22 estimate and that guy wanted another G-note for the 410.
And for anyone keeping statistics, which is probably another thread, I needed 5 contractors to get 3 'good' estimates. My baseline for 'good' is the contractor made all the necessary measurements needed to run the manual J calculation. The other 2 guys sat at my kitchen table and wrote up their estimates after looking at the plates on each unit and listening to why I wanted new systems.
A 410-A, 12 SEER AC system, is as efficent as a R-22, 12 SEER system. The efficiency increase of R410-A isnt realized by the consumer, but by the manufacturer,in using smaller compressor design to achieve the same effect.The sealed refrigeration components have to be designed thicker as well.
I am planning R410-A training after this summer. It will be interesting to see what happens to AC sales next summer, with the 13 SEER restrictions. In our latitude, 13SEER ac/s make about as much sense as a 94% efficient furnace in Miami, FL.
never say never
Pros and cons on R410- Slightly higher SEER ratings can be accomplished on a smaller foot print than R22, some condensors and or evap coils are getting very big.
Higher pressures and intolerance to moisture will require installer to do a better job of vac'g systems, use of nitrogen, etc - plus all R410 units probably should have in line drier standard as a safety net. Failure rates on poor installs will be high because of moisture issue. Good install no problem.
Offical manufacturer warranty failure claims for R-410A have been lower as compared to R-22 warranty claims. At this point it looks like 410A equipment may be more dependable than 22 systems. It could also mean that 410 systems are mostly installed by the higher quality contractors.
I feel for the customer
I think 410-a is probably is like any thing else.You put
it in correctly and it will probably work fine.The problem
is like anything else I our trade no training other than
ojt.So the customer will be the one who pays for the
training on there equipment.I had a split heatpump with a
dirty indoor coil stopped up running in heat mode the
unit had a overtemp limit strapped on the discharge line
that failed to open compressor on verge of bypass pressure
very high never felt a line get that hot on a heatpump.So
when they go to leaving safeties off to cut cost like on
22 it could get ugly.
lets face it 410a is here to stay
as long as the system is installed properly you shouldnt have trouble with it for a long time. at least not install related. r-22 has been in use since forever. it has proven itself and yea we all like it. 410a is new in comparision but it is proving itself all the time. being use to 22 for so long makes change hard but time has come and change happens all the time
as much as i would like to say go with r-22 system well
it is a mew ara so goo with the 410a system and you wont have to worry about r-22 for rhe life of the system
good luck and enjoy you ac