Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 30
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,042
    Interesting. I've not heard of this either, but hey, Canada always did have interesting ways of doing things.

    What I have heard of, though never seen offered locally, are leased heating and cooling services. In effect, you contract with a company to keep your space within a range of temperatures specified in your contract. They install the equipment and pay the utilities used for the heating and cooling (yes, separate or sub-meters). It's their job to determine the optimum balance of purchase cost and operating cost, maintenance cost versus increased utility consumption, and when to replace older equipment in favor of higher efficiency. If they get it right, they make money, and if they get it wrong, they don't. Somebody doing this could apply heavy-duty business science and research to questions that are normally decided by homeowners with very little information.

    Also odd, but available locally, is carpet services. This is intended for commercial applications, where it normally doesn't last all that long. You contract with a company to provide carpet for a (long) period of time. If/when it wears out, it's their responsibility to replace it. This was dreamed up by a Georgia Tech textile guru who wanted to find a mechanism to really push carpet makers to work harder on durability issues. That way their ability to profit is directly related to how well their product holds up.

    I'm not arguing that these are good or bad ideas. They're just interesting concepts to consider because of the way they alter the usual economics of these operation/repair/replacement decisions.

    [Edited by wyounger on 03-21-2005 at 11:13 AM]

  2. #15
    True, the main difference between renting and lease to own is the rental side includes parts and labour for ten years or in other terms worry free operation. In the U.S what do people do when they need a new water heater of furnace?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,042
    They either buy one at retail and install it themselves, or they hire a plumber to procure one and install it for them. Either way, it's universally owned. The renting thing is unheard of here.

  4. #17
    Hvac equipment change outs are usually due to an emergency or breakdown, most people do not have the ability to pay up front, wouldn't this program make sense. What do you do with people that can't afford a new tank installation? What about labour and parts protection?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    684
    Homeowners can typically afford the relatively small price of a water heater $250 and up or so. I'm just a homeowner and have replaced my own. The hard part is lifting the old one filled with sediment out.

    Most of the people that can't afford the outlay of a water heater are in a rental unit where their landlord has to fix it.

    Otherwise, I guess they put it on a credit card or wait until next payday. No different than car repairs.


  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,324
    I'm personally interested in going tankless next time I gotta change out that 50 gallon pig in my house (if I still live there). For certain in the house I will build myself in the future, it will have a tankless unit in it.

    Here in the States it wouldn't be cost effective to rent a water heater, as cheap as they can be found at the local big box home center. I can pick a decent gas model up for under 300 dollars, pop it in with whatever minimal piping and flue changes necessary, and be set for another ten or so years. If I bothered to drain it now and then I might be able to stretch that time out a little longer.

    I couldn't imagine renting a tank at say ten bucks a month that would wed me to a payment for as long as I lived in the house, when I could pay out of pocket and be done with it for awhile. Let's say I lived in a house for twenty years. At ten bucks a month over twenty years, that's $2,400.00 American dollars pissed away on a hot water heater. The home center job, replaced twice in twenty years, might set me back $600.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    A few years ago I was looking at a "deal" like this that some HVAC contractor was advertising in this area. I even managed to get a salesman to shoot some numbers at me for what the monthly payment would be.
    With thier setup, the payments included parts and labor for repairs for 15 years. At the end of the 15 years, you got a new system and higher payments, or your payments stopped and you kept the old system.

    I don't have the actual numbers anymore, but at the time, the payments over 15 years for a basic 12 SEER system added up to more than enough to buy a Lennos HS21 2 speed system with a 2 stage 90% furnace with a Space Guard filter, UV light, humidifier and zone controls and new duct system.
    With what was left over you could replace the compressor, condensor fan motor, varriable speed blower module, furnace control board, 2 speed controller, zone controller and inducer fan at least once each going by the flat rates of the company I worked for at the time.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    150
    Electric and gas utilities used to lease their water heaters here in MA (just like Ma Bell)- with deregulation, codes, and big box stores - these arrangements are now going the way of AT&T.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    3
    To aid the discussion:

    I am a homeowner in Ontario.

    I rent my waterheater from the electric company (Toronto Hydro).

    I pay a flat rate for the electricity for the water heater. (the power going to the waterheater by-passes the meter).

    My last bill for a 2 month period (62 days, Canadian dollars):

    Water Heater rental: $13.43
    Flat rate for power: $65.35

    These numbers do not include Taxes.

    How would these numbers compare to owning a gas heater?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    North St Paul MN
    Posts
    858
    Interesting. Here in the States, water heater rental is pretty much unheard of. But to rent a water softener is pretty common. And there they sit, side by side in the utility room...
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

  11. #24
    Originally posted by wilbur
    To aid the discussion:

    I am a homeowner in Ontario.

    I rent my waterheater from the electric company (Toronto Hydro).

    I pay a flat rate for the electricity for the water heater. (the power going to the waterheater by-passes the meter).

    My last bill for a 2 month period (62 days, Canadian dollars):

    Water Heater rental: $13.43
    Flat rate for power: $65.35

    These numbers do not include Taxes.

    How would these numbers compare to owning a gas heater?
    Hi, how old is your water heater, the age of the equipment can effect your energy costs. Do you know what type of water heater you have. There have been a number of technical changes made to water tanks over the last few years including thicker insulation and vapour technology to prevent fires. The vapour technology is now law for atmosheric (conventional) water tanks. Depending on the age of your tank changing it out for a new tank may end up saving you money in the long run.

    Let me know if you want any other information

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    3
    With my rental, it doesn't really matter to me how effecient or old or what technology my heater is. I rarely run out of hot water. I am billed a flat rate. (it doesn't matter how much hot water I use, I still pay the same amount).


  13. #26
    Originally posted by shophound
    I'm personally interested in going tankless next time I gotta change out that 50 gallon pig in my house (if I still live there). For certain in the house I will build myself in the future, it will have a tankless unit in it.

    Here in the States it wouldn't be cost effective to rent a water heater, as cheap as they can be found at the local big box home center. I can pick a decent gas model up for under 300 dollars, pop it in with whatever minimal piping and flue changes necessary, and be set for another ten or so years. If I bothered to drain it now and then I might be able to stretch that time out a little longer.

    I couldn't imagine renting a tank at say ten bucks a month that would wed me to a payment for as long as I lived in the house, when I could pay out of pocket and be done with it for awhile. Let's say I lived in a house for twenty years. At ten bucks a month over twenty years, that's $2,400.00 American dollars pissed away on a hot water heater. The home center job, replaced twice in twenty years, might set me back $600.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event