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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Huntley, IL
    Posts
    25
    If for some reason the combustion process is off a little bit, you could easily end up with larger amount of carbon monoxide being produced than intended.

    If for any reason that unit isn't burning correctly (debris in burners; gas pressure too high, gas pressure too low, in adequate combustion air ...), the by products of combustion would change- you could end up with more water, unburned gas, carbon monoxide... and other chemicals I would have to look up- all going into the house, not up a chimney.

    Chances are higher that the combustion process will be incorrect rather than correct... that goes for most un-tuned fuel burning appliances. See Jim Davis for more answers.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fogelsville, Pa.
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by logdoc_rob View Post
    I'm just wondering what "burner malfunctions" you are referring to?
    like eyeseeitall said. dido.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    392
    Those situations that eyeseeitall mentioned are not "malfunctions" they are from incompetent, uneducated, irresponsible installers and/or homeowners not maintaining or operating the appliance properly. An automobile is dangerous if not properly operated and maintained also, but I'm sure you guys aren't recommending people to not drive cars. Sure, there are situations that vent-free fireplaces are not a good idea like in very small rooms and in extremely cold climates when the homes must be very tightly sealed, but in my area, they seem to be very popular. I would estimate that there are tens of thousands of VF here in my area and have never heard of anyone killed, maimed or seriously injured by their fireplace.

    I have been in the gas fireplace business for over 10yr and vent-free gas fireplaces make up 70-80% of the gas fireplaces here in southern Virginia and have serviced several thousand gas fireplaces. On my service calls I check gas pressures, check the operation of safety systems, test for gas leaks as well as carbon monoxide output and have found that vent-frees are not the evil monsters that they are portrayed to be if properly installed and maintained. I also educate the homeowner on the importance of proper maintenance and operation of their fireplace. I do not know the experience of those who posted here, but it chaps my butt when people spout off about how "evil" vent-free gas fireplaces are when they have never even seen, touched nor serviced one. I apologize to anyone offended by my opinion here.
    Common sense is NOT common !!!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fogelsville, Pa.
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by logdoc_rob View Post
    Those situations that eyeseeitall mentioned are not "malfunctions" they are from incompetent, uneducated, irresponsible installers and/or homeowners not maintaining or operating the appliance properly. An automobile is dangerous if not properly operated and maintained also, but I'm sure you guys aren't recommending people to not drive cars.

    I have been in the gas fireplace business for over 10yr and vent-free gas fireplaces make up 70-80% of the gas fireplaces here in southern Virginia and have serviced several thousand gas fireplaces. On my service calls I check gas pressures, check the operation of safety systems, test for gas leaks as well as carbon monoxide output and have found that vent-frees are not the evil monsters that they are portrayed to be if properly installed and maintained. I also educate the homeowner on the importance of proper maintenance and operation of their fireplace. I do not know the experience of those who posted here, but it chaps my butt when people spout off about how "evil" vent-free gas fireplaces are when they have never even seen, touched nor serviced one. I apologize to anyone offended by my opinion here.
    No doubt. Id put one in my house, but I know it would be maintained. Lets face it people are bad about maintaining there equipt. They want it installed and then they want to forget about it. For the bad maintainers the direct vent would be the way to go. IMHO

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    392
    Quote Originally Posted by billymons View Post
    No doubt. Id put one in my house, but I know it would be maintained. Lets face it people are bad about maintaining there equipt. They want it installed and then they want to forget about it. For the bad maintainers the direct vent would be the way to go. IMHO
    LMAO !!! Billymons, that is too funny....true, but funny!! Bad maintainers should buy trailers so if that's not maintained, the worse that can happen is they can fall thru the floor and squish 5 of the dawgs sleeping underneath.
    Common sense is NOT common !!!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fogelsville, Pa.
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by logdoc_rob View Post
    LMAO !!! Billymons, that is too funny....true, but funny!! Bad maintainers should buy trailers so if that's not maintained, the worse that can happen is they can fall thru the floor and squish 5 of the dawgs sleeping underneath.
    I cant tell you how many logsets, inserts, freestanding units I have installed but each one I would take the time(not just run out the door) and tell the cust about taking care of there unit. I think it just goes over there head and they just want you to leave so they can enjoy there new unit. More companies should offer service contracts for these things so service gets done just like hvac contracts. And they love to position the logs in their own little pattern. you know their pattern is always best. lol

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Huntley, IL
    Posts
    25
    Billymons & Logdoc- while I have never installed any of these systems, I would generally agree with you... but I know that there are very, very few homeowners that would maintain their ventless systems properly... and if you haven't noticed, homeowners most often choose the lowest bidder- meaning they are likely getting lower quality installations/maintainers.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    392
    You are right about homeowners not maintaining things properly. I educate my customers on the proper operation of their fireplaces and also what happens when they do not have it maintained or they have the "neighborhood handyman" work on it. Got one call that the "neighborhood handyman" had worked on a VF and didn't put the logs back properly and sooted up the living room. Clean-up of the two story stone fireplace and repainting the two story ceiling was BIG bucks !!! I now have a customer for life !!
    Common sense is NOT common !!!

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,058

    Smile test safety systems?

    Rob, just to bust on you but how do you test the ODS?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    392
    I call my ex-wife and say something derogatory about her mother, she rants for 2:34 and at that exact moment is the point where she has sucked the oxygen level down to 18.5%. It's that simple !!! I may get you to check her calibration when you are down this way again !!!
    Common sense is NOT common !!!

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    392
    Seriously, is there a way to test the operation of the ODS?
    Common sense is NOT common !!!

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,058

    Smile Testing ODS dropout

    You would need a combustion analyzer. Zero the analyzer then place the probe tip right at the ODS pilot burner. Fabricate a temporary dam such as sheet metal around the unit about 12-18" high to trap CO2, which displaces the O2. Have a low level CO monitor going right next to you and one upstairs during this test.

    Fire the unit and run it for awhile watching the O2 reading. When it hits 18.5% or so, the flame should be advanced out past the pilot burner to where it passes the thermocouple causing it to dropout. Not in any text anywhere but I've done it and it works.
    hth,

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    29
    Wow. I know this post is old but, I am shocked at how many people are against a vent free gas logs. I love mine. The wife has even got up in the morning for work left them burning on accident and I have came home 6 hours later to turn them off. I havent had any moisture problems, CO2 problems, sooting problems. I dont even have to run the heat pump. I can heat the whole house with them if I dont want to. Just turn on the fan and it pumps warm air thru the house.

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