Ruud Furnace stumps Pros

[berad]

Originally posted by joeoilman
is the furnace & elect system properly grounded?

I have seen flame rectification problems out of these units many times. Sometimes even after the remote flame senser kit installed. Usualy they are in older homes with poor electrical systems. If Hmome has copper plumbing, run a grounding wire from the furnace cabinet to it. If not, but it's in the basement, drive a ground rod into the concrete and ground the furnace to it. I know it sounds hokey, but if nothing else shows up, this will at least eliminate rectification from poor grounding from the list of suspects.

[NormChris]

Originally posted by berad
Normchris, have you ever taught for ISL in the Wheeling Illinois area?

Nope, not me. I taught in California for a long time and have put on seminars all over the country including Chicago.

[berad]

I had an instructor named Chris, after reading your profile I thought you might be one and the same.

[hamish]

rclark wrote
The suggestion about disconnecting the thermostat and jumping from R to W was the first thing you should try. Does the furnace have a good ground?? Has anyone checked the vent pressure switch? One and One is not making two on this furnace. Should you need to contact Rheem /Ruud (service department) the number is 501-646-4311

The phone number is no longer in service anyone have another contact number.

[ruud-man]

Start here:
Linda Collins- 479-646-4311 VP Service

[operator]

Originally posted by tinknocker service tech
an other page hehehehe. look for a nate cirtified co with a nate heat tech.

we dont have nate up here

[md master]

"I have hired pro contractors to do the job, but after three different contractors, the latest solution suggested is to replace the furnace"


That's because ruud's are disposable.

[Bulldog]

It could be as simple as improper grounding, has anyone checked that?

[Twilly]

It's the transformer, not enough VA because it has gotten weak.....I do like the millivolt thermostat that way it should work if they don't have power .

[tinknocker service tech]

operator
about my post
an other page hehehehe. look for a nate cirtified co with a nate heat tech.
on an earlier post i said i felt nate was not what it is said to be even though i am beening told by lenox i have to be nate cart. i dont feel i need nate to tell me i know how to work on units i have been working on for 32 years
did not mean to infur any thing or put anyone down at all
hehehe was just about ignoring my thinking and tring to help someone. glad you dont have to deal with nate yet

[Bulldog]

I have worked on Rheem units like this and found on several occasions that the manual reset rollout switches had become weak after several years service and will break and remake on their own, there are three of these located on the burner manifold, it is difficult to catch them in the failed condition because they reset before you can get a meter on them. They are only $5.00 each and that it cheap compaired to what you have already spent.

[docholiday]

Manual resets, resetting automaticly? If a rollout is weak its because they have been subject to some level of thermal stress and therefore there is real poroblem that needs addressed and replacing the switch, in and of itself does not solve anything.

As far as calling the factory, dont. They are not going to sit on the other end of the line and guess at a bunch of unkowns. They will require answers to specific questions that will determine the problem such as "what is the vent pressure?", "What is the flame signal", "what is the actual voltage between X and Y" and a litany of others in an effort to properly troubleshoot it. Then when they find out it has been running on a millivolt thermostat, another mfg's ignitor, a gas valve off the shelf and a module that should have been updated with a remote flame signal the first time, they really cant tell you what you got, nor should they. All these things should be looked at and recorded then anyone with any mechanical ability will see the problem. Since we dont have any of that, we arent going to know the issue such Norm said.

If your local dealer cant find the problem the HE needs to contact the local distributor for some help who will in turn call the factory guy if he cant figure it out who will insist on answers to the same questions.

[Bulldog]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by docholiday
[B]Manual resets, resetting automaticly? If a rollout is weak its because they have been subject to some level of thermal stress and therefore there is real poroblem that needs addressed and replacing the switch, in and of itself does not solve anything.
As a matter of fact after 15 yrs of service these swiches do surcome to normal operating temperatures, and yes they do reset themselves. just because you have never run across this what makes you qualified to say that it does not happen? These switches are the small mini disc and are positioned extremely close to the flame. This is even more common when the furnace is installed in the vertical position.

[polar121]

Millivolt ? I'd change that reguardless. Next I'd check to see the light on the board. There could be a problem with the board but if you have changed it more than once with the same problem there is something causing it to do this obviously. My advice is to call another contractor. Bigger doesn't always mean better, and smaller doesn't always mean better service LOL . Keep calling till you find a good one and remember the company when you need to call someone again. You can call a local supply house and they can recommend someone to you.

[indian]

I always get a kick out of how we are supposed to fix things over the phone or the computer. Thanks for the laugh!

[docholiday]

Bulldog, those switches arent supposed to be subject to the constant heat, if they are, then there is a draft or overfiring issue. Parts fail when they are stressed. Yeah at that point the switch needs replaced but rest assured it will fail the next one too if the real problem isnt resolved.

[PullaVac]

Hamish
Obviously,the furnace has been working for some 14 years.My question is, what prompt the service call to change out the Nordyne HIS 903758 on 3/31/04?? I am assuming that everthing was working up to that date. I, not being familiar with Ruud, would like to know what is an HIS903758. I feel that you need to look at the whole picture. Like where is the furnace located. Had there been any other type of work in or around the area that the furnace is occupying. I have had several service calls that came about because of other trades. For example, handymen putting down plywood decking in an attic that cut through a thermostat wire with a nail gun. It shorted W1 and Y to R this caused the electric heat strips and the condensing unit to provide heat and cool at the same time. I had checked the T-stat and all of the sequencers first. I then disconnected W1 and the cool would continune.I would then disconnect Y and the heat would continue. I had checked all of the components and everything was in good shape, but it was not working as designed. I Found out this problem by asking the homeowner, had their been anyone else around working on or near the unit? My question is, has any electrical wiring been done or work been preformed at or around that time when the HIS 903758 was replaced? If you care to dicuss this more in detail you can contact me a drirudie@aol.com

[operator]

Originally posted by tinknocker service tech
operator
did not mean to infur any thing or put anyone down at all
hehehe was just about ignoring my thinking and tring to help someone. glad you dont have to deal with nate yet

no one offended, just didnt want her calling around trying to find someone with nate, that would be a long search

[docholiday]

I suppose she could go th the NATE website http://www.natex.org/natex/consumer1.asp and plug in her zip code to see if she gets any results rather than call around.

[hamish]

Thanks to all that posted their advice, the furnace is now working.

The solution included:
1) Beefing up the grounding on the control module by adding a star washer and additional torque on the ground screw.
2) The ignitor was of the type that doubled as the flame sensor and it was moved into the second position putting it further into the flame.

Steps that one of the 3 professional techs should have done considering the 7 service visits and $$ spent:
1) Knowing that the dual purpose ignitor was of poor design, a control module with remote senor kit should have been installed, instead of the two OEM modules.
2) A positive ground should have been added to the furnace and/or control module.
3) Documentation of the tests completed if any, done during the 7 service visits.

What the HVAC trade needs in Canada.

1) Professionals of the standard that seem to be present on this forum.
2) Trainers like NormChris and others on this forum.
3) NATE certification and referral service.

I never set out to hire substandard HVAC techs but with no certification or referral network it is difficult for a homeowner to know. I now know to ask what type of tests a tech intends to perform and what type of testing equipment will be used.

Thanks again to all who gave of the time and advice.