GEO THERMAL GROUND SOURCE HEAT PUMP

[nathan9999]

With the help of several contributors (Docholiday, BaldlLoonie and others) I have pretty much decided on the HVAC configuration for my new home.

But I must say the most intriguing solution that I have researched is a geo thermal system (probably because it's so unique and seems to deliver consistent savings).

But I won't use this system, primarily just too expensive and I'm probably not courageous enough.

What do the professional members think about geo thermal systems? Do you think they will become more popular in the future as energy costs increase? Do any of the profesional members have experience in this area, and can they offer any insights into this technology?

Thanks

[framehvac]

Do you think they will become more popular in the future as energy costs increase?

NO!



Do any of the profesional members have experience in this area, and can they offer any insights into this technology?


The cost is to much,to much time to install.

[docholiday]

There is nothing wrong with them, they are very popular indeed. The problem most people have is the installation costs and hopes that it is installed with the correct amount of ground loop. Rarely do they need aux. heat unless they are in an area where they will run long enough to freeze the earth around the external ground loop. Overall its great technology and most of the companies who call themselves geothermal, do a pretty good job. Few hacks enter this arena as they cant afford the equipment and subcontactors.

Canada relies heavily on them but whats $30,000 in Canadian.. like $103.44 here. Lol

So what did you decide on?

[nathan9999]

Doc, I am in central California, hot, dry summers and mild winters (rarely freezing). I decided on a relatively low SEER (12 or 13) AC with TXV and a 2 stage 80% furnace, either 2 speed or variable. My time on this site (and your input) convinced me that a 16-19 SEER unit and a 91+ furnace would not necessarliy be worth the extra money, while the 2 stage furnace with a 2 speed or variable speed fan would provide higher level of comfort. I haven't decided if a 2 speed AC is worth it. My thinking right now is probably not. Last thing is to have the ducts sealed (it's not a code requirement in California.

The most importnant thing I learned is not to be too concerned over brand, but rather find the best quality contractor.

Thanks again.

[karsthuntr]

I have installed a lot of Geo-thermal units. The cost is high but savings are great.

I have a builder who I installed 2 geo systems for. 6800 sq ft house and 200 dollar a month electric bill in winter, in VA.

He will pay for his system in 10 years, he installed the loops himself so his cost wasn't so high.

We do have one hack builder who installs geo equipment. His installs are not bad but the service has a lot to be desired. I have stolen all his customers.

[Toolpusher]

I would think they will become more popular, They have been on the increase around here. I don't know about southern california.

The install cost can be more due to the loop and excavation, But that is only a one time expense. The savings that will be delivered are for the life of the unit.
In most areas the payback can be short term. They don't take that much loger to install, But it needs to be installed by someone who knows what they'er doing. Not just anyone can do.

They need to be trained on geo.

[framehvac]

The most importnant thing I learned is not to be too concerned over brand, but rather find the best quality contractor.


Thats true the best way to find a good contractor is,see if the installer makes good money if he does then he will do a good job,Plus if he makes good money then you know that his boss likes the work that he does.The installer will put it in not the owner.

[nathan9999]

The Trane website features a homeowner in Austin, TX. It's interesting that they're being installed in Canada, Texas, Virgina, even California, so it seems as though they make some economic sense in diverse climates. Only one company locally seems to have entered this market, and it appears he has done only a couple of installs in 2 years.

[framehvac]

Originally posted by nathan9999
The Trane website features a homeowner in Austin, TX. It's interesting that they're being installed in Canada, Texas, Virgina, even California, so it seems as though they make some economic sense in diverse climates. Only one company locally seems to have entered this market, and it appears he has done only a couple of installs in 2 years.

nathan9999 do you know what a GEO THERMAL GROUND SOURCE HEAT PUMP is?

[karsthuntr]

I did some refer work in a college cafeteria/conferance hall. There was 107 geo-units installed in that building.

A lot of schools are installing these units (cost effective).

[berad]

Any manufacturers 16 seer two stage heat pump is just as efficient as geothermal. It doesn't heat your water, but install cost is half. I verified this fact, that was brought to my attention by my trane rep, in real time. A floor plan we have done many times with geothermal, slight adjustments for things like shade and reflective load have varied some of these slightly. Came up on one on a very small lot. Put in 16 seer heatpump. Operating cost for first rear nearly identicle to same house in same subdivision with same load. Similar operating parameters.

[framehvac]

ground & water they take time to install.

[nathan9999]

framehvac, only thing I know is what I read on the Trane website and the local contractor's website. Heat pumps are rarely, if ever, used in our area (irascible says it's because of our high electric rates), so prior to visiting this site I knew nothing about heat pumps, and I have never had a local contractor even mention a heat pump as an option. Truth is, I still really don't understand the technology very well.

[heatpumpguru]

I have one in my home and it is Awesome,NO outdoor unit and with an all elctric home it was the way to go. We install alot,but the LOOP cost is 1800 per ton. The equipment is close to a 2 stage variable speed furnace. We think the loop as your fuel and that you are buying it upfront at a fixed price. You still need a fan and compressor no matter what you put in.We have installed a few just for the fact of many outdoor units and where to hide them.

[Toolpusher]

Everything takes time to install if done well,
Most around here farm out the loop, an excavator can put it in while crew does the indoor unit.
Why does that take longer.

Loop is usaully less then a day, even when i did them myself.

[framehvac]

Originally posted by Toolpusher
Everything takes time to install if done well,
Most around here farm out the loop, an excavator can put it in while crew does the indoor unit.
Why does that take longer.

Loop is usaully less then a day, even when i did them myself.

I can do a small home in one day so that would make it twice the time.I didn't say a week just more time.

Most around here farm out the loop, an excavator can put it in while crew does the indoor unit.

Thats a good idea.

[bornriding]

Have intentions of installing ground source heat pump in my home. Will take water from well, filter it, run it through the condenser coil, and dump it into my pond. This will cost me a couple of SEER points, but should still put me in the 16 -18 SEER area. Will cost about $350.00 for ditch witch to dig trench - ( 4 ft deep at deepest ) and pvc pipe to bury in the ditch. The remaining cost will be in the unit
itself, which is not cheap, but by doing the work myself, it will be worth the cost in just a few years.

[karsthuntr]

Originally posted by bornriding
Have intentions of installing ground source heat pump in my home. Will take water from well, filter it, run it through the condenser coil, and dump it into my pond. This will cost me a couple of SEER points, but should still put me in the 16 -18 SEER area. Will cost about $350.00 for ditch witch to dig trench - ( 4 ft deep at deepest ) and pvc pipe to bury in the ditch. The remaining cost will be in the unit
itself, which is not cheap, but by doing the work myself, it will be worth the cost in just a few years.

You better hope you have a good well. If you run out of water you run out of heat.

Why not put in a pond loop?

Here is a Geo-calculator. http://www.waterfurnace.com/forms/fo...age=calculator

[framehvac]

You better hope you have a good well. If you run out of water you run out of heat.


Now that would suck.

[karsthuntr]

The eer is 17.1 on a top of the line waterfurnace. I belive that translates to 23-25 seer.