ReplyAnd if that house didn't have a pool, how much more would the wells have cost, 60 to 80%?
Regular Guest
Docholiday:
I read your post with the break down by costs, interest rates, etc. I think you left something out though. The tax paid on your money in the bank and the tax saved when paying the interest on the loan. That may have a more dramatic affect then you might think.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
And if that house didn't have a pool, how much more would the wells have cost, 60 to 80%?
Professional Member
Just a moment ago, there was a post after beenthere.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
I thought that too.Originally posted by docholiday
Just a moment ago, there was a post after beenthere.
Regular Guest
[ deleted by BC-1
we like to help homeowners in need of technical help and information.
However, we can't help you with pricing questions, please do not post or ask
about prices.
It is in the Forum Rules
BC-1 ]
[Edited by BC1 on 03-14-2005 at 12:14 PM]
Regular Guest
Anyone can do like ever one else. When the cost is that much differant so is the saving.
Regular Guest
With all due respect, the numbers posted were to do an intelligent cost analysis comparison. The postings I made were not a misdirection and were intended to stay focused and on topic. As far as censoring, you need to maintain your forum as you see necessary. As far as future postings, I think I will simply read and refrain from contributing. My offer to help others in Geo applications remains, just not on a community forum.
Professional Member
BC1,
I think that was a statement of how much difference the pricing was as experienced by the consumer, versus a question on pricing. If any posts should be deleted it was the one breaking down the costs. I am sorry for asking, I tried to be specific by asking only total price and details on how the home was laid out. The missing post showed a 13k difference in price from one versus the other which was pretty close to my point.
Professional Member*
A 5 ton geo heat pump at the previously posted price? That would be a bottom line unit, as compared with a 10 SEER builder model air-air heat pump. Geo heat pump installations will cost more that air-air systems, even the 16+ SEER heat pumps. Of course, my local TRANE dealer advertises that his high end heat pumps are ALMOST as efficient as geo at 1/2 the cost!! But he is giving away his systems, too. Trane bought the Command Aire line of geo heat pumps in Texas and is marketing them under the Trane name, you just don't hear much from them, because they want to move air-air boxes. Carrier has the Climate Master line in their product package, but again you don't hear much about them because of their push for air-air boxes.
Regular Guest
Someone has said geo is not worth it up north. I just read a case study from Princeton Minnsota. Winter Design Temp of -18 degree and a summer design temp of 90 degrees for a 3400 Sq foot house, the average energy bill $44.64. Sounds good to me when the house has 9,000 heating degree days and 850 cooling degree days. This was in 1998 when unit only had a COP of 4 to 1. The last ones I installed had a COP of 5.7 to 1 on open loop and 5 to 1 on closed loop and EER of 24. What will be the case study on these units in 7 years. Go to http://www.geoexchange and read case studies all over the country. Or IGSPHA and read some also.
[Edited by geoexchangeman on 03-16-2005 at 11:04 AM]
Professional Member
Some questions/thoughts:
Who is familiar with "Class V" well injection? What is the cost difference between a traditional resedential well and a well with a return water line from a geothermal unit?
The biggest apparent drawback to the water-air or water-water heat pumps are the initial costs or the ability to have a 'loop'. What if instead of a "loop", a [~90% efficient tankless gas water heater with a modulating gas valve] were used to always maintain 60 degree water (using a water-refrigerant heat exchanger) , thus putting a load on the evaporator? Obviously there is the energy penalty from running the gas water heater, but would it still not be more efficient on a 20 degree day than running an air-air heat pump? Or than running any fossil fuel furnace?
Why not use that 'free cooling' in the winter to keep the food in your freezer/refrigerators cold (An idea for the Geo-Synergy guy to chew on))
More thoughts to come later
Regular Guest
Something like this is use when geothermo units are installed in a building and a boiler is used to heat the water and cooling tower is used to cool the water. the cooling tower has a closed loop water coil, and an open water flowing over it in summer. This was used on a hotel building I have serviced because the origanal design of 150 hole closed geo thermo loop was out of budget about 30 years ago. But it is not as eff. but the hotel has no out side units. Small geo thermo units on the wall of each room. Large units in the lounge and conference rooms. Water temps on the evaporater can be higher than 60 degrees just don,t over load the compressors 80 degrees will be OK I'm sure, FHP specs show temps at 80 degrees. A two ton unit will put out 33,000 BTUS with a COP 4.8 to 1, but will only put out 27,000 btus with 60 degree water at a COP 4.3 to 1.Originally posted by CSalsman
Some questions/thoughts:
Who is familiar with "Class V" well injection? What is the cost difference between a traditional resedential well and a well with a return water line from a geothermal unit?
The biggest apparent drawback to the water-air or water-water heat pumps are the initial costs or the ability to have a 'loop'. What if instead of a "loop", a [~90% efficient tankless gas water heater with a modulating gas valve] were used to always maintain 60 degree water (using a water-refrigerant heat exchanger) , thus putting a load on the evaporator? Obviously there is the energy penalty from running the gas water heater, but would it still not be more efficient on a 20 degree day than running an air-air heat pump? Or than running any fossil fuel furnace?
Why not use that 'free cooling' in the winter to keep the food in your freezer/refrigerators cold (An idea for the Geo-Synergy guy to chew on)
More thoughts to come later
[Edited by geoexchangeman on 03-17-2005 at 12:29 AM]
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