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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    327
    I hate to sound like an environmental whacko, but please dont use an open loop system without returning water to the same strata. Your unit will use over a MILLION gallons a year, and taking water from a deep well and returning it to a pond screws up the water table big time.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Nathan

    I designed and installed quite a few of these systems.

    They are for well insulated homes.

    It all depends on energy costs but typically they are installed in rural areas where natural gas is not available, and they operate considerably cheaper than propane and oil systems. It all depends on your electrical rates vs the costs of the other fuels.

    They are for a home that you plan on living in for an extended period of time. They may require a pay back period of up to 5 years.
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6
    Actually we do, but we still have to pump it up in the first place

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    I do have a question.... Is the pump included in the equipment SEER? If its external I doubt it but I dont know.

    Maybe I should elaborate on my original reply. The up front cost is significantly higher and there is a payback period, you just need to determine what the alternative is in order to figure it. Versus a 14 Seer unit, it will be fairly long. Versus a 10 Seer, it might be short. The upfront cost is the hard part. In a new house it might be, I dont know 20k versus 8k for the HVAC, just a guess. But add the additional 12k to the mortgage and figure 30 year financing, that adds up to quite a cost not figured into any payback calculators. Even if you pay cash, look at the loss in compounded interest or investment return on the differnece of 12k for a period of years it would take to recover. I'm no financial wizard, trust me but, I suspect its a larger hit than it appears

    Would I have one? Sure if my one time out of pocket cost weren't prohibiting it. I think they are great technology and will continue to grow in the market.


  5. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Niantic, Illinois
    Posts
    545
    I swear, the 18 seer heatpump of anuy manufacturer is just slightly less efficient than a geothermal. But by the time you compare the installation costs, you'll never see the payback on the geothermal. This is at least true in central Illinois. We install them, don't get me wrong, but it's not because they are great, it's because they are trendy and our general contractors ask for them.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    155
    Yeah but now lets figure using 60 degree water year round versus 20 or 30 degree winter air or 95 degree summer air. Think about it.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dothan, Al
    Posts
    3,453

    Kars

    I have both a well and county water. Will have capability of connecting to either at any time.

    Will run off to pond - pond 50 ft from well - water table will be fine
    Also since I am installing this myself, I don't have as much costs as others. Should see payback in a few years.
    If I get the right system, should last hopefully through my retirement days.

    And 'doc', as far as I can tell from literature, no, the water pump is not considered as part of system and not figured in SEER rating

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Seems it should since it replaces the condenser fan but maybe thats bvecause its external to the package. I bet it if it was the SEER and HSPF would drop some.

    Again, I think they are great jut too rich for a guy like me to be able to afford.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    155
    Go with a "Florida Heat Pump", You wont regret it.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    80
    Originally posted by berad
    I swear, the 18 seer heatpump of anuy manufacturer is just slightly less efficient than a geothermal. But by the time you compare the installation costs, you'll never see the payback on the geothermal.
    i'd like to see some support of this statement. we do these types of systems for schools all the time. i've done several life cycle cost analyses and usually see simple payback periods around the 6 year mark with an internal rate of return around 20%. serveral of these schools have been operating for a couple of years and their energy usage is right in line with the life cycle studies. pretty good investment if you ask me but these analyses are for schools ranging from 35,000 sf to 300,000 sf, in the residential world you might not see these returns.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dothan, Al
    Posts
    3,453
    Doc, by doing the job myself, with the unit( 4 ton ) and the buried pvc, I'll have less than 2900.00 in the system.
    Go from 10.00 seer to 18 to 19 seer( estimated ), should be good investment. My estimate includes cost of well pump operation. Don't know that it would be worth it if I had to pay someone else to do it.
    But also would not go with higher than 12 or 13 seer of any other kind of unit. Would not get payback before I died. Ha ( am 51 )
    Of course 'florida heat pump' would be great, cost would increase about 300.00, but probably what I will go with.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7
    Canada relies heavily on them but whats $30,000 in Canadian.. like $103.44 here. Lol

    I don't know anybody in Canada that has one...where did you get that info from??

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Originally posted by sd47
    Canada relies heavily on them but whats $30,000 in Canadian.. like $103.44 here. Lol

    I don't know anybody in Canada that has one...where did you get that info from??
    You obviously never sold geothermal
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

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