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  1. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by hydronicsman View Post
    Apparently the inspectors are looking for positive grounding, and buried pipe won't cut it. Plus, they don't know if newer composite material was used, interrupting path.

    If there is a dedicated uninterrupted ground to panel someplace nearby the gas work, at least as heavy gauge as the new gas ground, it is permissible to dual lug and splice the gas ground to it. It must be on the same bond clamp in case of another possible interruption. Check with your town fathers about pre-existing wire. I know that #6 is what is required today.

    The idea is to invite stray currents down an easier path than Mr. CSST.
    Thanks, I'm going to run that by my plumber. Is the newer composite material you are referring to on the gas company side of my house? I could call my gas distributor, Vectren, for an answer if so.

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,717
    Quote Originally Posted by commerce48 View Post
    I'm not sure if this is meaningful information, but on low stage, my returns are absolutely silent. I only hear supply noise, which I believe is only noise of air moving through the supplies.

    If in fact the return is a bit restrictive, would the supply side noise be lessened if the return was modified to be less restrictive? That might make it worthwhile for me to explore a new return drop.
    No. Your lo fire static is fine. So the noise wouldn't be effected by modifying the return.
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  3. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    .1"
    That's pretty significant. Would it make a notable difference on the supply noise (which is by no means bad right now).

    Its ok, if you don't have a 4" media air filter installed.
    But I do!

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    No. Your lo fire static is fine. So the noise wouldn't be effected by modifying the return.
    Thanks, good to know.

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3,824
    Do you have wall, floor or baseboard type supply registers?
    Always here

  6. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    Do you have wall, floor or baseboard type supply registers?
    Wall. What are you considering?

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by commerce48 View Post
    Thanks, I was hoping you might appreciate it. You know, I never really took your admonitions against 60K modulators as not being appropriate for small homes to heart, but when everything else was considered, this small two stage turned out to be a better fit for my lifestyle and home.

    I'm liking it so far. Of course, setback recovery isn't as brisk as the oversized 60K single stage that it replaced, but the comfort advantages offset that handily.

    By the way, for all the recent back and forth, I really learned a lot from your posts. My first post on this forum I believe was in response to a post of yours on filters (a very long and contentious thread) a year ago or so.
    We can't learn if we don't banter our thoughts back and forth. Looks like your contractor was very receptive to your needs.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Looks like your contractor was very receptive to your needs.
    I suppose. You always hope to find a professional that will do the right thing without needing direction. It has never been true in my experience from medical, to legal, to the trades without a large amount of homework on my part first.

    Here for example, without a significant amount of research, I would never have found the right furnace for me. It had to be special ordered, and no sales guy suggested it.

    Likewise with my model of tankless. While this company has had a number of installs of the base model, the only one with the buffer tank they installed was by mistake and had to have the buffer tank disabled by homeowner request. I would have been very unhappy with the base model as it turns out, so it was only knowing what I wanted that saved me.

    In fact, i'd bet the homeowner that got the better model was only unhappy because he was probably not oriented to the benefits properly by the company. Which goes along with my experience that the installer, while doing an OK job of physically installing the Navien, did not really know it.

    Likewise with my duct revision. No one suggested that either, but when pointed out, all agreed it was a good idea.

    Not trying to slam HVAC companies in general, but an informed and sophisticated homeowner does usually end up with with a better install. I think that is what happened to me, and I also had the benefit of a better than average company that was, as you say, responsive to my needs.

    I'm a bit disappointed with the new return drop, more now that I have read the feedback, but I don't think it is a huge deal. I am unfortunately the kind of guy who tends to focus on the negatives. Just the way I view the world - and I like to think that it improves my own professional practice of continual improvement.

  9. #61
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    474
    Looks like you generally have what you wanted.
    After I install something I'LL sometimes look at it and think, gee if I had only install the pipe a 1/2 inch to the left.
    ENJOY THE RIDE

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by commerce48 View Post



    But I do!

    Turning vanes will help with lowering that ell's PD.
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  11. #63
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    Aug 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Turning vanes will help with lowering that ell's PD.
    That would require disassembly of the drop? Perhaps a better design installed would do just as well.

    Just out of curiosity, when you said that it would be possible to have static improvements of .1, does that include at low stage? Drop the static from .21 to .11? Or only at a max airflow of 800 CFM while running the AC?

    I've been noticing some interesting effects of the induction blower that I don't understand. With the main blower remaining at 0 CFM (off), there is actually hot air delivered through my supplies during warm up. It is pretty low flow, a trickle only, far less than when the blower turns on. Perhaps it is convection only. But if so, that would seem like the heat exchanger is getting too hot before the blower turns on.

    I haven't timed it, but it is a pretty good wait watching the read out before the blower kicks on - I'd guess two full minutes.

  12. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,717
    Natural convection. Happens with all furnaces to one extent or another.

    Vanes are easier to install then a whole new ell.
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  13. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Coloma MI
    Posts
    214
    Quote Originally Posted by commerce48 View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed with the new return drop, more now that I have read the feedback, but I don't think it is a huge deal. I am unfortunately the kind of guy who tends to focus on the negatives. Just the way I view the world - and I like to think that it improves my own professional practice of continual improvement.
    Here's what they did with my return and the filter box for my new install. Maybe something similar would work well for your application without a huge modification. Perhaps the pros can comment on it.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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