My wife is a para-educator at a private school for ADHD and ADD children. It's a job I would never want to do, she is great at it. One of the problems teachers have is the kids get very little direction from their home life. Parents seem to think it's the schools job to raise the kids. Teachers buy all the supplies for the classrooms from their own pockets.
As far as I'm concerned there is to much govt in the schools and to much importance put on sports and other extracurricular activities. They are valuable to a point but when all you hear about is money problems in the schools I could think of some ways to cut expenses.
They won't even put seat belts on school buses down here yet they build huge school campuses, costing millions and millions of $. You get ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt in a car, which has air bags yet 30 kids get on a bus driven by someone whom you don't know, not enough seats to sit on and god knows what may be mechanically wrong with it.
As far as bad teachers go, produce or get fired. In Houston they are crying about poor performing schools. Hell, fire the bad teachers and hire new ones.
I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.
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I was not in the school system but the college system so things were a little different. But I can say the classroom is run by the administrators now not the teachers. They did not want the instructors to do any more to help out the students learn that someone else taking over the course could not do. Say I had some nifty examples on the topic they did not want it in the course if some other instructor had to pick it up and teach the course.
Originally Posted by ascj
Basically they want caned courses where a presenter hands out the information. It is real inconvenient for administrators if the presenter has to have some depth in the subject since it limits them from shuffling instructors in and out of courses. Basically they want courses that are generic and easy for them to fill the instructor position.
Now as far as the pay and time off for teachers, here the top rate for college level instruction is in the low 70's. Add a couple of thousand if you have a Masters and a couple more if you are a PHD.
The top rate I would get as an instructor is about under ten grand less than I am making now doing maintenance work. If I really wanted to make more money I could do it with some private firms but I am settling for less due to the security of where I am now.
Now I have taught adults and have had a taste of school aged kids when they had kids camps here. What a week of hell, I'll leave teaching kids to the professionals (never mind all the kids now with special needs). So even with teaching adults it was a lot of work. Forget evenings you are going over the day's work or preparing for the next day. The three months off is closer to two months (just because the kids are out it is not like you are on holidays), and a well deserved month and a half because after a year of stress your brain is fried.
So between the students and dealing with the administration (who want you to be responsible for almost anything that can happen in the class and would rather hang you up to dry than back you if a problem does occur) with all the paperwork I am having doubts that I would ever return to teaching. The extra five grand in my pocket is not a great incentive, the two month off would be nice but next year I will have four weeks off. I do miss the feeling of accomplishment I got seeing the students go out with the knowledge they gained. I do not think teachers are doing badly but from being there I know it is not as easy as some think.
In most parts of the world Teacher is a very respected profession. They haven't printed enough money to get me to do that job. Just like Police Officer and Fire Fighter they risk everything for a thankless public that does nothing but criticize. I, for one, am glad they do what they do. And I feel they 'EARN' every penny we pay them. And if it weren't for Unions nobody in the USA would make a living wage.
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Well there goes your credibility on ARP.
Originally Posted by Paul Bee
What exactly do they risk everyday? I'm glad they do what they do but this is way overboard.
Originally Posted by Paul Bee
This is hardly overboard... The thread started from some twit that didn't have a clue about anything saying he was sick and tired...
Get a grip in my wifes district alone the poltics between the administration and goverment have caused for the last several years hundreds of lay offs... My wife has been fired the last three years and the union at the bargaining table bring back the teachers but not all of them... can you imagine spending several hundred thousand dollars for an education to become a teacher and then have the goverment stepping in taking away funding, forcing curriculm down your throat not allowing you to teach in the class toom?
And then you have the kids, my wife teachs 6&7 grade math science. These kids someof them have Gang Banger parents... they bring knifes, guns and drugs to school like its no big thing... There's no discipline at home why would there be at school...
Most teachers work hard and are dedicated to thier class rooms, some are not and maybe its because their being beaten down by twits that don't have a clue.
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Seems there are quite a few of us with spouses that are teachers....We know the time and effort they put in to try and educate kids who really don't want, or care if they do, learn. One benefit we do get.... our kids do learn.....Both of ours are college grads....
Yeah, I know... that and $1.50 will get you some coffee.....
Hey wolfie..... How about those 775 new laws you guys got yesterday......Sorry man.
Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.
I want to be the Rochester City School Superintendent. The guy makes $275K+ per year, or something like that. I remember the guy makes more than the POTUS?
When it comes to budget cuts.........he don't take one, he lays teacher off.
I want to be a teacher, i would tell the little creeps to sit down, read a book and when the bell rings get the heck out.
I would get holidays and summers off.........thats the life
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It's like being dead, but without the commitment
Of course teachers have a "hard" job. Does anyone not have a job that involves work. If so, tell me what it is and I will change careers.
I had a teacher tell me that teachers don't make enough money. He also said that he votes for all social programs that raise taxes in order to give the money to help someone else (and claimed that wasn't socialism). I then informed him that if he voted for lower taxes, teachers would make more money without a higher salary and that he is arm wrestling himself by voting for higher taxes. He was dumbfounded and had no response.
I have known a few teachers some good, some horrible. They shouldn't make more money for being horrible teachers. the ones that are good should be able to make more. I went to a private high school and some of the teachers sucked (like the socialist one I just talked about that taught a bs class and gave us his bs opinions all day) and some were really good. I am convinced that the main reason the teachers were better was because they were allowed to teach and not held back by politics or political correctness. Also, all of the students were there to learn and the parents all payed money for them to go there so they cared how their kids did and acted.
Teachers are making full pay and benefits for working less than most people, I think they are fairly compensated. And does anyone here really think that paying them more would make education any better? Of course their jobs require them to work, so what?
One of the teachers I had had a brother that was an engineer. The engineer made more money. He was also in a higher tax bracket, and after taxes made a little less money than the teacher. I think that is proof enough that teachers are making plenty for what they do.
Were lucky to have good teachers in our district, 2 or 3 that taught me in high school is still there with my kids now.
If you want to talk about schools and no pay, my wife just recently became cafeteria manager at a new school, shes been working in the cafeteria for about 6 years. This past year she made 12K, now as a manager she should get another 100 dollars a month, so hopefully this year she will make 13.2K. Plus with her being in an elementary school, we pay for at least one kids lunch a week that their parent doesn't give them money to eat.
Not complaining just stating facts and adding another perspective.
Originally Posted by MatrixTransform
When I was in high school they were doing "in class" reviews of teachers. The good teachers were always worried how they would do and sometimes they were given bad reviews and I never could figure that one out.
Originally Posted by dijit
The good ones should make more money but like my statement above- how do you grade them and who has say so? Then if you start a board, thats more tax money, and then it turns into anything else government related, corrupted and useless.
Originally Posted by MatrixTransform
Originally Posted by dijit
I agree with most of what you said but this part is flawed at best. If you make more you will earn more(maybe not alot more) unless you have other tax factors in your life. A higher tax bracket in itself can not cause you to make less than a lower one no matter what if all things are equal. Everyones tax situation is different but earning more does mean keeping more for most.
Usually, but if you are on the higher end of a tax bracket and someone else is making just enough to bump them up to the next, then they can very well make less. I am just throwing out numbers here but if you have to pay 25% for up to $59,999 income and 30% for 60,000 and above, if you made 59 k you would net $44,250. If you made 61 k, you would net $42,700. But you are right that taxes are a little more complex than that.
Originally Posted by newoldtech
I do agree with you that my point was a little flawed but it was just making a point that they do make a decent enough amount of money. Different teachers make different salaries and engineers salaries vary according to lots of factors as well, but the point was that is this case the teacher's salary was comparable to his brother, the engineer's salary after taxes. And he was very happy with what he made and pointed out that he also has summers off (ass well as lots of holidays), while his brother doesn't. Teachers also could choose to work during their summers and bump up their income. A lot of other people don't have a job where they have summers off to either work or kick back.
But the fact that his salary was comparable to an engineer's to me is proof he was making a decent amount of money. If he had a brother that was flipping burgers at a fast food joint and had said his brother received more pre-tax income, then yeah, it would seem he was underpaid.
But also, along with their salaries, you have to take into account their benefits, which I am sure vary quite a bit, but health care, dental care, retirement, etc. does not come for free and definitely has an added value to what you are getting out of working somewhere.
Where I live people have been complaining about government workers not taking salary cuts like everyone else. One congressman was saying that our police average over 100k a year even thought their salary averages around 70k. When you factor in the cost of their health care, retirement, etc. the average cost for the tax payer exceeds 100k. In all reality, the officers are getting about 100k in payment even though they get less in salary because they do not have to pay for their own health care, retirements, etc.
That is another thing to think about with teachers. How much are they getting in benefits. And should we give them the option to take the cash and pay for their own benefits. I guess that would change the cost of benefits because they would have less of a group rate discount so probably wouldn't really be feasible but it is something to consider.