WH say's to keep quiet
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,241

    WH say's to keep quiet

    The "end of life counciling" may not be in the HC bill anymore but it is back. If they can't legislate they will regulate.


    http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...ath-panel-talk
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    The originating article is a much better read.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us...eath.html?_r=1


    It will be interesting to see how people spin this. I would not mind a good discussion of this topic as we all will end up leaving this world one day. As much as all of us would like to go quick and painlessly 80% of us will spend our last days in a hospital. With advancements in medical care they can pretty much keep our bodies going for years with the aid of machines. At what point do we accept the inevitable and throw in the towel? Now if you were in this position and in no way able to decide on your fate who decides how long you are to remain in this purgatory?

    So why do we not talk about how we want to go? We had one old guy's demise play out on our daily paper due to his family's inability to let him go. In this case the family could not accept the opinion of the doctors that their patient will never recover.

    ...physicians told his Orthodox Jewish family there was no point in keeping him on a respirator and feeding tube — his chances of recovery were zero percent, they said. But the family refused on religious grounds. Doctors told the family they planned to unhook him anyway. The family decided to take them to court.

    As days of waiting for a resolution turned into weeks, and weeks into months, the ICU physicians' discomfort with providing "useless" and potentially painful treatment grew. Three of them announced in May and June they could no longer ethically justify treating (the patient).
    http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine....actice_07.html

    So who decides, especially as our population gets older and our lives can be extended indefinably in an Intensive Care Unit? Does it seem prudent for your doctor to discuss these issues before you have no option to let your will be known?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
    Posts
    17,089
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    The "end of life counciling" may not be in the HC bill anymore but it is back. If they can't legislate they will regulate.


    http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...ath-panel-talk
    The "quiet" would be in response to professional twits like Palin wailing and gnashing their teeth about "death panels" for no other reason than petty party politics.








    End of life counseling is as printer says, a prudent medical course of action for patients facing serious decisions.

    Being made aware of all options and the implications of those options is a necessary component of medical care and end of life decisions.

    This is a no-brainer for all but the ignorant and the ideologically motivated.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    985
    I intend to move to the last and greatest bastion of freedom ever known to man so that I will never fear the government making decisions about where I live, what I can eat, when it's not worth keeping me alive..etc..etc.

    Oh wait, looks like that place is soon lost.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    The "quiet" would be in response to professional twits like Palin wailing and gnashing their teeth about "death panels" for no other reason than petty party politics.








    End of life counseling is as printer says, a prudent medical course of action for patients facing serious decisions.

    Being made aware of all options and the implications of those options is a necessary component of medical care and end of life decisions.

    This is a no-brainer for all but the ignorant and the ideologically motivated.
    I put in some new thermostats in a section of the hospital that did not have individual control for each office. Can not recall the person's designation on the door but from the books on the wall they seemed to be in the social services field. I found that odd as most of the people involved in social services are located in a different building. Then I saw some of the pamphlets on the wall and it made more sense to me.

    The woman was there to counsel people for who it looked like medical technology was not going to help them make it through their illness. They may not be in imminent danger of dying but hope was not in the cards for them. I never thought about it before since I plan to live for a long time but those that do not have a lot of ducks to get in a row. Not only the physiological aspect of the realization but also their relationship with the people around them, and the strain it will be putting on those people. Then there is the financial planning, a whole host of things that we do not normally worry about.

    I guess the woman doing the counseling in that office would seem like a cog in the death machine that Sarah Palin is afraid of. Or maybe Sarah was just playing politics trying to scare people.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,241
    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    The "quiet" would be in response to professional twits like Palin wailing and gnashing their teeth about "death panels" for no other reason than petty party politics.








    End of life counseling is as printer says, a prudent medical course of action for patients facing serious decisions.

    Being made aware of all options and the implications of those options is a necessary component of medical care and end of life decisions.

    This is a no-brainer for all but the ignorant and the ideologically motivated.
    It's a no-brainer for all but the ignorant and the ideologically motivated that these discussions do not already occur between doctor and patient.

    The sinister part of it is that there are czars in place and people in this administration that are on the record for saying they believe that HC should be on a rating system. If your young and have more years to contribute to society then more money should be spent on you and your illness. If your old and do not have that many more years left, you get end of life counseling and some pain med's.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    It's a no-brainer for all but the ignorant and the ideologically motivated that these discussions do not already occur between doctor and patient.

    The sinister part of it is that there are czars in place and people in this administration that are on the record for saying they believe that HC should be on a rating system. If your young and have more years to contribute to society then more money should be spent on you and your illness. If your old and do not have that many more years left, you get end of life counseling and some pain med's.
    Actually the major driver in health care budgets are chronic illnesses, most of them being age or lifestyle related. And being that the babyboomers moving towards skewing the age demographics to two or three working age people to one retired person, health care costs are going to go through the roof.

    So what is it you suggest?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,241
    I think this has already been in other threads.

    But since you ask, If I were King: Tort reform would be a great start, let people from other companies (small business) pool plans, purchase across state lines and then get out of the way for while to see what happens.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    I think this has already been in other threads.

    But since you ask, If I were King: Tort reform would be a great start, let people from other companies (small business) pool plans, purchase across state lines and then get out of the way for while to see what happens.
    Actually we have talked about different ways to change the health industry in the US. But this is fairly new ground. What do we do about end of life care? I do not recall us really talking about it.

    The basic questions seems to be who decides what procedures are to be done and how long do we do them for. As more and more people get older how much can society afford to pay to keep them alive on a machine where twenty years ago they would be allowed to meet their maker. also in not doing everything physically possible are we in fact committing murder in the eyes of God?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,241
    What procedures are to be done and for how long is a very personal issue that should remain between doctor, patient, family, clergy and through prayer. In a free republic the power does not belong in the hands of society and more importantly, the government. The whole premise that it is somehow broken and needs federal intervention is absurd.

    Human life cannot be measured in value in terms of dollars and cents.

    Next time I see God I will see if I can get an answer for you. Personally I think not as long as you had no hand in putting them in their current condition. What about the person that has to unplug someone from life support? In the eyes of God are they guilty of murder? In the strictest sense of the word I suppose you would be. I hope I am never in the position where I have to make such a decision.

    As the populace ages and insurance companies begin to pay out more monies on the back end the only way to remain profitable is to either increase premiums or reduce operational costs. I support the latter and more government red tape is not, nor will it ever be the answer.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    What procedures are to be done and for how long is a very personal issue that should remain between doctor, patient, family, clergy and through prayer. In a free republic the power does not belong in the hands of society and more importantly, the government. The whole premise that it is somehow broken and needs federal intervention is absurd.

    Human life cannot be measured in value in terms of dollars and cents.

    Next time I see God I will see if I can get an answer for you. Personally I think not as long as you had no hand in putting them in their current condition. What about the person that has to unplug someone from life support? In the eyes of God are they guilty of murder? In the strictest sense of the word I suppose you would be. I hope I am never in the position where I have to make such a decision.

    As the populace ages and insurance companies begin to pay out more monies on the back end the only way to remain profitable is to either increase premiums or reduce operational costs. I support the latter and more government red tape is not, nor will it ever be the answer.
    I had to do it, and using some common sense and some mercy, its not that hard to do. Its hard to say goodbye to someone your close to, but I could tell in his eyes he wanted to go.

    I kissed him on the forehead and said.."see you on the other side".

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,241
    God speed my friend.....I can't even imagine how tough that might have been for you.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Been there also. Doctor said we could keep him going for as long as we needed but that he was not going to come out of it. Decided to to give him the peace he deserved. By morning it was all over.

    The decision was not that hard. Much harder when it is cancer and the chances are not that good. Better if I just leave it at that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event