The Pain of Payne Furnace - Page 2
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 27
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    10

    Yellodot/Kars

    I do believe it is a "stinking" ship. If it is ok with you, could you help me with one last question and I'll be out of your "air" for the evening...

    I was told that my house does not have a return air duct.
    It doesn't surprise me to hear this since not much about this home appears to be done properly. Could you explain the benefits of the return air duct particularly since I will be considering the new Rheem furnace? I am not HVAC saavy so I do not know what impact no return air has had/will have... Thx, much.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,841

    Re: Yellodot/Kars

    Originally posted by kayac2005
    I do believe it is a "stinking" ship. If it is ok with you, could you help me with one last question and I'll be out of your "air" for the evening...

    I was told that my house does not have a return air duct.
    It doesn't surprise me to hear this since not much about this home appears to be done properly. Could you explain the benefits of the return air duct particularly since I will be considering the new Rheem furnace? I am not HVAC saavy so I do not know what impact no return air has had/will have... Thx, much.
    First Trane is best were is your filter at?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Grottoes VA
    Posts
    5,856
    I don't think there is enough memory on this server for me to tell you about proper duct design. Just trust your installer to install the furnace correctly.

    You may not need return duct but it will be noisy. If furnace is in basement than you do need return duct. Like I said I am not the one to explain it to you.
    Karst means cave. So, I search for caves.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gilroy, Calif
    Posts
    188
    You can't smell CO. I would question even getting CO into the house with a 90% furnace since it's induced draft, sounds like yours is. You could have flame roll out with communication between the fan compartment and the space the unit is installed in which may cause climate air and exhaust that could mix but even then you have safety devices to protect against that. Your HVAC Company should have explained their diagnosis for determining a crack is present and if they can’t start asking some question. Your local Gas Company won't be able to help you if you have a sealed combustion or serpentine heat exchanger. These types of HX require tools that we are not equipped with. If they can visually inspect a HX than that would be an impartial source to go to. Bottom line here is, whatever means they used to determine a crack should be conveyed to you and that should be proven to you. The answer should not be it's the source of a smell! I agree with some of the others, find another HVAC dealer.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    10

    GJE BIG THANKS

    Ok that's extremely helpful. GJE, I've gotten many conflicting reports on this unit and yours has confirmed this needs to be followed up by a Payne dealer in my area to get a full diagnostic. It is an upflow model, in the basement of my split level (1976). So that might explain no air return. The smell is was what concerned us because as soon as we open the door to the room where the furnace is located, we would smell this burning oily-like smell, so I figured it wasn't a gas leak since that's smell is "rotten eggs". After the unit was operating, stopped and the fan stopped, the odor was most noticeable at the four burners/burner assembly area. These are also kind of black and sooty looking. Anyway, I appreciate all the feedback here.


  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Grottoes VA
    Posts
    5,856
    L.P.?

    You have a plugged heat exchanger, IMHO.
    Karst means cave. So, I search for caves.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    349
    If the heat exchanger is plugged and sooted up, it could take a very long time to come up with "proof" of a crack. Sometimes the best decision is to make a diagnosis based on assumptions.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    3,798

    Post Plugged Secondary

    We see a few furnaces installed with the return under the house, strange but that the way they did it years ago around here.

    I think the furnace was replaced and the installing company just were lazy to update the return system.

    If this is LP and a condensing furnace and there are issues for the return hows the maintenance been. Is there a chance the Xchanger would be plugged up, probably.

    Find a Carrier dealer in your area... US Air COnditioning is the Carrier Payne distributor for California. http://www.scacd.com I think they will have a link there for a dealer in your area. The City of Industry telephone number is (626) 854-4500 press 0 for the operator and explain your needing a local dealer.

    AllTemp Heating & Cooling

  9. #22
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    3,798

    Not Equipped!

    Originally posted by gje1
    I agree with some of the others, find another HVAC dealer.
    Payne has access with the proper equipment to get a look at the heat exchanger as well as that secondary. Your service guy if he has a fiber optic scope and probe and cover msot of the exchanger easily...
    AllTemp Heating & Cooling

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    10

    Final Result turned out to be...

    To complete this tread... there was nothing wrong with the unit. DOG HAIR was the cause of the smell (trapped in the electronic aircleaner). How embarrasing! However, thankfully I didn't trust the first opinion and got a second one. No carbon monoxide detected above 1 ppm.
    Thanks to everyone here.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Central Kansas
    Posts
    1,145
    Please get a second opinion and forget the brand. Something may not be fully investigated or researched here and the next person may discover the problem and/or offer fitting sulotions. When/if you get to the point of comparing replacement models, feel free to post them here- (no prices) and post exact model numbers with the brand name. This will allow us to advise you if brand X model A is similar to brand Z model B or if someone is just blowing smoke.

    I will not knock Rheem or any other brand, but I'd never tell you this or that brand is best. There is simply no such thing as the best brand. It is all a personal opinion and nothing more. I tounge in cheek say "we want to stamp out Lennox in your lifetime". Seriously, they make good products and I do not really mean that. But too bad so many of those fine HVAC units were installed in a so-so manner, making them a mediocre investment rather than a quality one. Not one thing wrong with Lennox, Rheem or any other brand. All manufacturers make builder grades and they all make impressive flagship lines of equipment, also. Albeit, there have been a few things that either were ahead of their time, not carefully researched out before placing on the market or otherwise just turned out to be an embarrassment to the manufacturer.

    If someone tells you this or that is best, ask them why? Ask just what is so special about their brand that nobody else on earth has anything at all like it? Now instead, if they tell you they, themselves are the best and can document why they feel that way. Perhaps through professional certifications, training, professional demeanor, helpful, thorough, show pride in workmanship, have a list of satisfied customers to call upon, etc. you are on the right track. The guy who tells you he is best because of his low pricing is telling you something else in reality. He is saying "I could do as high a quality of work as Greg & I could install a flagship model like he is suggesting, but... Don't you really want a cheaper, quicker installation of a cheaper piece of equipment? If I take the time to do heat loss calce and review your present ductwork, and ask you about noise, comfort, energy savings, neat workmanship, etc... well, that takes time, time is money and money is all it's about, right?"

    Put your time into finding the right hands, not the right brands. If the hands who install the equipment don't seem to meet professional standards, make you uncomfortable, do not perform heat loss calcs, give you uneasy feelings, appear to be complete dumb@$$es, etc. find someone else. You may end up with a Rheem or maybe just get reamed. There is a difference. Best luck with your problem and I hope the issue is settled whether you are facing a scare tactic salesman or a concerned pro who tests and substantiates that a problem indeed exists. Greg

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gilroy, Calif
    Posts
    188
    Time out Kayac. This thread isn’t over yet. I’ve got some concerns.

    These are also kind of black and sooty looking.

    When the HVAC dealer inspected the unit was this pointed out or notice? Was the problem found to cause black and sooty burners? I assume (ass/u/me) you had a dealer out? If so, what was the cause of the sooting, or was that your assessment?


    DOG HAIR was the cause of the smell (trapped in the electronic air cleaner).

    Electronic air cleaners are on the airside of a Forced Air Furnace and if it were dog hair burning off from the air cleaner you would smell it throughout the house from the hot air outlets.
    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????


    It is an up flow model, in the basement of my split level (1976). So that might explain no air return.

    No air return. Or air return is in the basement? If that’s the case, what is the temp of your basement in the winter? Some help from the pros on this but I would think this is very inefficient. You need to ask the guys here to explain that pulling cold air from your cold basement instead of your house is extremely inefficient and costly. If you have hot air outlets in your basement consider this null and void.





  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Thibodaux, LA
    Posts
    1,170

    Greg

    Well said....

    I share your opinions and beliefs. I always like to tell my customers any HVAC system is only as good as its installed. And, that a well installed HVAC sytem will still break.

    Sold alot of equipment lines over the years and they all had one thing in common (THEY BREAK!)

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event