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  1. #1

    1st winter with geo-thermal heat

    I am in upstate NY. 1st winter with my system. Installer out of business because of fire. Have another dealer coming next week to familiarize himself with my installation for any future warranty/service work needed. Thought I would ask you folks what to expect. I have 2 waterfurnace envision units on a closed horizontal loop. Currently, considering wind chill, it is about 5 degrees outside. Both units are running at stage 1. They run for about 30minutes, and shut off for 7-10minutes. keeping the temp at 71 degrees. I assume that since they are staying in stage 1, things are doing fine. Given the outside temp, is it " normal "for them to run nonstop for 1/2 hr. Thanks for your help. RS

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    159
    Sounds like you probably have oversized units. During the heating season this is perfectly ok. In fact, my system sounds pathetic compared to yours. If I don't keep my woodstove running pretty hot, I'll pretty much run nonstop on stage 1 and even dip into stage 2 from time to time to keep my house at 71 (when it's that cold outside).

    Just for curiosity's sake, what size are the two units, and can you tell me a little about your house?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    RSchenone,

    Based on the information you provided, we do not have any concerns with your equipment.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    237
    i see new installs run much longer than that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lancaster county PA.
    Posts
    34

    Thumbs up Envision working great.

    I have been servicing water fnc equipment for over 20 years in Lancaster PA and it sounds to me like yours is working great. I am surprised that the stats are satisfying with just low stage operation on such a cold outside conditions. Your home must be pretty well insulated and air tight or the units are a little oversized. Anyway, enjoy one of the best hvac units on the market today. Yes,I am a little biased. Brian.

  6. #6

    First winter with high electricity bill.

    We just moved into our new house with an envision geo-thermal heating unit, 5 ton system for a 2300 sq. ft. ranch house in Central PA. Our first electricity bill was $410 for December, today we got the bill from Dec. 24 to Jan. 25 and it was $379. I am shocked! Is this normal? We keep our house pretty much at 64 the whole day, in the evening we start a wood fire to heat the house up to 70. Our unit pretty much runs on stage 1 for about 10 minutes at a time, off for about the same time. How do I know if the auxiliary heat come on? I have an intellizone control panel. Any help or suggestion?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lancaster county PA.
    Posts
    34

    Smile elect. bills normal?

    Hi there.
    There are too many unknown factors for me to say if your bill is too much, just right, or cheap. For example. Is your home total electric? What are your utility rates? How well are you insulated? What is you anticipated heating load calculation? And many more. A good way to figure your heating cost is to take a non-hvac active month like Oct. or April and use that as a basis for electric use. Then take your avg winter bill and subtract the basis month. This leaves you with an approximate heating cost for that month.
    The best way to know if your Intellizone control is asking for aux heat is to look at the outputs on the upper right hand side of the board. If there is a green led lit up next to the "w" output then the board is signalling the aux heat to turn on. I do not know how many zones you have but be aware that just because a stat shows that it is calling for aux heat does not mean that it is on. It only means that the stat is requesting the intellizone to turn it on. It usually take appox 75% of the total possible demand from all of the stats combined to cause the intellizone to turn on the aux heat. There is one exception to this rule and that is if the installer turned on an option on the intellizone board called faster upstaging with timer. If he did then the intellizone is forced to turn on a higher stage after so much time has expired. Ask the installer if he turned this on. Does not sound like you need it. Hope this helps a little.- Brian.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Gold Coast of Connecticut
    Posts
    4,543
    Quote Originally Posted by ggg117 View Post
    We just moved into our new house with an envision geo-thermal heating unit, 5 ton system for a 2300 sq. ft. ranch house in Central PA. Our first electricity bill was $410 for December, today we got the bill from Dec. 24 to Jan. 25 and it was $379. I am shocked! Is this normal? We keep our house pretty much at 64 the whole day, in the evening we start a wood fire to heat the house up to 70. Our unit pretty much runs on stage 1 for about 10 minutes at a time, off for about the same time. How do I know if the auxiliary heat come on? I have an intellizone control panel. Any help or suggestion?

    Shocked at what? Maybe you have 2 refrigerators and cheep lighting?

    If your all electric thats awesome......omg. This includes all heat? hot water? cooking? Lighting?

    An oil heated home you size will use 200 gallons of oil and $200.00 in electric a month. Thats $900.00 a month.
    Aire Serv of SW Connecticut- Gas heat, dual fuel and central a/c systems installed and serviced

  9. #9

    More details on the house

    We moved into this brand new house in November, so we only have two month worth of electricity bill. Our house is only electric, so everything runs on electricity. All our appliances are brand new, energy star qualified. The only old thing in our house are 2 old TVs from about 2000.Our utility rate is 12.97 cents per KWH, total rate ($371/2861KWH used = 12.97). Our house has an unfinished basement and an unfinished full attic. We have insulation of at least R38 in the attic, at least R30 in the ceiling of the basement and at least R19 for the walls. All insulation is fiberglass mats. All our windows are w/Argon triple glazed, doors are w/Argon double glazed. Our house faces East with the side of the house facing South. We do get lots of evening sun, but the house is on a hill. I hope this helps. Am I being paranoid about the cost? The installer told us that similar houses in our neighborhood with geothermal have a total electricity bill of $200 in the winter. Did he not tell the truth?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lancaster county PA.
    Posts
    34

    Smile paranoid or not

    I hope the installer did not stretch the truth, but the only way to know for sure is to ask some of your neighbors with similar homes and systems. Many things go into this equation of total electric use. You answered the questions that I asked but there are many more. Number of occupants, how often they shower or bath. Is there a hot tub in the master suite? Is anyone home all day? What kind of lighting? The list goes on and on.
    You said the basement & attic are unfinished. Does either of them have ductwork roughed in for the future? If yes, make sure all of it is capped off.
    If you have a desuperheater on your unit make sure it is working and set up correctly so it can save you money on your water heating.
    Also remember that this has been an unusually cold and extra windy winter so far this year.
    From everything that you wrote, I do not think that the unit is malfunctioning. If I were you, I would want to know if the Intellizone control is configured for faster upstaging with timer or not. If it is, then the aux heat could be coming on when it is not really needed. This shortens the run cycle of the unit, which then gives you less cheap hot water as a by-product of heating the home. You also use more electric for home heating this way.

    Good luck and congratulations on a new home. - Brian

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    5,994

    Thumbs up Cost is all relative ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Freezeking2000 View Post
    Shocked at what? Maybe you have 2 refrigerators and cheep lighting?

    If your all electric thats awesome......omg. This includes all heat? hot water? cooking? Lighting?

    An oil heated home you size will use 200 gallons of oil and $200.00 in electric a month. Thats $900.00 a month.
    WAY TOO High .. my electric bill for all electric 1,800 sq feet is running $50 / month for last few months.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lancaster county PA.
    Posts
    34

    Hmm compare apples to apples

    If I read your stats correctly, you are in south florida, not central PA. Your heating bill should be a lot cheaper than ours!

  13. #13

    Update on heating cost

    Well I received two more electrical bills, the bill for February was $177 and the last bill for March was $142. On average we use about 50 Kwh on a cold winter day and much less nowadays. The installer came three times to our house and made adjustments to the set up. As far as I know the unit was not set up properly asking for auxiliary to early in the process.

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