Joel Osteen

[klove]

Hey leave her out of this!

You have to admit, Trey - your avatar doesn't exactly go along with trying to promote a christian witness, especially when coupled with your signature....(Just an observation)

[trey r]

Spreading God's love is not the same as declaring that you have a place to his right in Heaven.

Let's put it this way.....if Christ walked in the room right now, would you boldly proclaim, "Hey everybody, I'm IN !!!", or would you be on bended knee with your hat in your hand?

No I wouldn't I would humbly bow to my master and lord of all creation. But because of his love for me I can tell you that I will be with him in heaven.

Spreading God's love can be declaring that I have a place in heaven reserved for me. I can show others what he has done for me and what he will do for them. But according to I should say live for him faithfully and hopefully he will decide to let you in, but then again maybe not.

[2cool4us]

JO was asked if you could get to heaven other than through Christ and he hemmed & hawed then said he didn't want to comment on God's judgement of any one person. WHAT??? The Bible cannot be more clear on this issue: The ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus Christ-period. If you do not accept Christ as your personal savior and the Son of God, you are not going to heaven or enjoy eternal life. That's not my opinion---its God's word. If that hurts the feelings of Jews, aetheists, Muslims, Hindus, etc. then oh well. God's Holy Word does not apply to just Jews but the whole world. In fact, God took one of the worst persecutors of Believers (Saul) and converted him into his voice to the gentiles so they also would receive His Word. If these people reject Christ then they do Not go to heaven but they die and burn in hell for eternity---all according to the Bible. No sugar coating about it. It is amazing how people will reject this promise from God with such a cheap price of admission then embrace all sorts of worldly sins, false promises and failures.

Let me be clear---NO one on this earth can deliver Hope. That comes only from the Son of God offering you eternal life if you would only believe and accept Him.

You are so right!

[John Markl]

In John 3:18 He tells us that we are not condemned if we believe, but if we do not believe, then we are condemned already.

If only it were that easy.....but no worries, I've had this debate hundreds of times over the course of my life. I simply will not presume God's final judgement upon my soul.

[trey r]

You have to admit, Trey - your avatar doesn't exactly go along with trying to promote a christian witness, especially when coupled with your signature....(Just an observation)

No, your right. I have been in church my entire life and I have learned all men have their vices. Though most won't admit it and would rather put themselves on a pedestal. My Avatar and signature do not represent my standing with God or my beliefs.

[John Markl]

I interpreted it to mean that you enjoyed working on racks.....

[trey r]

I interpreted it to mean that you enjoyed working on racks.....

See each man has his own interpretation!

[klove]

If only it were that easy.....but no worries, I've had this debate hundreds of times over the course of my life. I simply will not presume God's final judgement upon my soul.

So you're calling God a liar? Or are you saying that the Bible is not the holy and perfect Word of God? Because it is that easy - God said so.....

[ga-hvac-tech]

If only it were that easy.....but no worries, I've had this debate hundreds of times over the course of my life. I simply will not presume God's final judgement upon my soul.

I think from what I have seen and heard from John M... that he has accepted Christ as his savior... The attitude of his heart says Christian to me.

The interesting thing to me is the way we seem to hang on to what is familiar... when there is room to question (and grow)... One of those mysteries of life that we will learn when we get there.

Praise God we will spend eternity with Him!!! The alternative is not a good thing IMO.

[ga-hvac-tech]

So you're calling God a liar? Or are you saying that the Bible is not the holy and perfect Word of God? Because it is that easy - God said so.....

Personally Klove, I agree with you. However (and I am not calling you out)... IMO the goal here is for God to draw John to Him. Lets see how God does this...

[John Markl]

So you're calling God a liar? Or are you saying that the Bible is not the holy and perfect Word of God? Because it is that easy - God said so.....

Sorry, not gonna take that old bait. See, that's the problem. Folks pick and choose the scripture that fits their desires.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that following Christ will be easy. Nowhere at all. "Belief" is merely the starting point. True belief requires following. That's where things get sticky on a day in, day out basis.

Scrpiture says "sell everything you own and give it to the poor" too.....I don't see much of that. Take a gander at the story of the woman at the temple with her two coins....

All thru my life, I've heard people claim that "they're saved", while they lead lives that say anything but.

All thru scripture, God has a way of slapping down those who get big in their britches.

[klove]

Personally Klove, I agree with you. However (and I am not calling you out)... IMO the goal here is for God to draw John to Him. Lets see how God does this...

I really think that a lot of folks that "argue" these issues are saying the same thing, they're just wording it differently.

Bottom line is: For by grace are we saved through faith, and that not of ourselves. It is a gift from God, so that no man can boast.... Yet ..... We are saved unto good works, and those good works will manifest themselves as the fruit of The Spirit if we are truly saved. We are saved by grace through faith, but faith without works is dead.

I simply have a hard time with calling God's promise of salvation a presumption.

[trey r]

I really think that a lot of folks that "argue" these issues are saying the same thing, they're just wording it differently.

Bottom line is: For by grace are we saved through faith, and that not of ourselves. It is a gift from God, so that no man can boast.... Yet ..... We are saved unto good works, and those good works will manifest themselves as the fruit of The Spirit if we are truly saved. We are saved by grace through faith, but faith without works is dead.

I simply have a hard time with calling God's promise of salvation a presumption.

Well said.