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Thread: Sad days

  1. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowirenut View Post
    But the area seems unwilling to change. Dad has brought up several ideas to entice business to relocate. All shot down because they dont understand logistics or enticements.
    I think you are right, when people have a mindset that things should always be the same, then we open our society up to catastrophic economic swings, with consequences that are largely unpredictable. Just like the Luddites in Britain, when spinning machines were introduced, they tried to burn down the facilities that produced and used them, but that was the beginning of a better way of life for all. Prior to mass production, most of our ancestors were very poor, struggling for all of what we would consider to be very basic needs, like food, clothing and shelter.

    Industrialization has brought many more benefits than problems, but as others have pointed out, we've become complacent, and now likely resentful that the "third world" is also moving forward. Our society is not going down the tubes, we are just being forced to change whether we like it or not. Am quite sure that we (Western democratic industrial societies) will continue to live in the best conditions on the planet, warts and all...

    Just my $0.02 worth, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    I think you are right, when people have a mindset that things should always be the same, then we open our society up to catastrophic economic swings, with consequences that are largely unpredictable. Just like the Luddites in Britain, when spinning machines were introduced, they tried to burn down the facilities that produced and used them, but that was the beginning of a better way of life for all. Prior to mass production, most of our ancestors were very poor, struggling for all of what we would consider to be very basic needs, like food, clothing and shelter.

    Industrialization has brought many more benefits than problems, but as others have pointed out, we've become complacent, and now likely resentful that the "third world" is also moving forward. Our society is not going down the tubes, we are just being forced to change whether we like it or not. Am quite sure that we (Western democratic industrial societies) will continue to live in the best conditions on the planet, warts and all...

    Just my $0.02 worth, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
    We are far beyond a comparison to the Luddites. And, many good arguments can be made against the "benefits" of the industrial revolution. Many people were "poor" by a standard that we can apply from our centrally heated structures today, but it is incorrect to say that the previous lifestyles were not of value in a social and political sense. Their lives were simply "normal" for them, and in their time.

    Our problem is that our complacency is bound together with a set of ideas based on social entitlements, rather than social responsibilities.

    The third world has no entitlements, and they understand that you must be responsible, or you will die.

    This is what we see happening in Greece. We cannot afford, and neither can the Greeks or anyone else, to have a society with a mandated, government supported standard of living as outlined by Cloward and Piven.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
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  3. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    We are far beyond a comparison to the Luddites. And, many good arguments can be made against the "benefits" of the industrial revolution. Many people were "poor" by a standard that we can apply from our centrally heated structures today, but it is incorrect to say that the previous lifestyles were not of value in a social and political sense. Their lives were simply "normal" for them, and in their time.
    By poor, I meant in terms of life's basic needs, but historically their (ordinary people's) lives were not rich socially or politically either, mostly revolving around various forms of slavery/indenturement and seeking refuge/solace in mainly religious activities. The "norm" of those days led to revolution and massive political changes, including democracy as we understand it today. The third world will eventually catch up with these ideas of ours, but no doubt they will go through their own periods of extreme social/political unrest to get there. As you point out, even now we are rethinking our ideas about what constitutes our obligation to our fellow human beings, so the process is constantly evolving and changing. We eventually take what works and turf what does not, that is part of our democratic way of life, something that many regimes in our world have not learned or accepted yet, but they eventually will. Perhaps there is a "better" system, but at this point in time what we have now has worked better than any other... (just my opinion)...

    An extremely complex topic, and certainly related to our everyday lives, but as history shows, solutions are long and hard in coming...
    Last edited by enb54; 12-26-2010 at 06:07 PM. Reason: spelling

  4. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    By poor, I meant in terms of life's basic needs, but historically their (ordinary people's) lives were not rich socially or politically either, mostly revolving around various forms of slavery/indenturement and seeking refuge/solace in mainly religious activities. The "norm" of those days led to revolution and massive political changes, including democracy as we understand it today. The third world will eventually catch up with these ideas of ours, but no doubt they will go through their own periods of extreme social/political unrest to get there. As you point out, even now we are rethinking our ideas about what constitutes our obligation to our fellow human beings, so the process is constantly evolving and changing. We eventually take what works and turf what does not, that is part of our democratic way of life, something that many regimes in our world have not learned or accepted yet, but they eventually will. Perhaps there is a "better" system, but at this point in time what we have now has worked better than any other... (just my opinion)...

    An extremely complex topic, and certainly related to our everyday lives, but as history shows, solutions are long and hard in coming...
    We are indentured slaves today. Once it was to a King in a fiefdom. Today, it is to a government that desires to redistribute wealth.

    As to lifestyle, I think the fiefdom had many advantages over what we have today. Hard work is the cure for many ills, and too many people here have neither hard work nor work at all. They have an idle life of being subjects, rather than citizens.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
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  5. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by gasoilair View Post
    Face it guys. Our time has come to pass.

    We turned into a society that waits for "someone else" to fix our problems. People these days are more concerned about what's on netflix tonight, how many friends we have on fagbook, waiting in line for the latest and greatest cell phone to come out, etc, etc.... We turned into a selfish, useless society that will get on twitter and tweet a thousand people we will never meet about what color shirt we are wearing today before we pick up a fking phone and call a family member to see how they are doing.

    Don't blame the formerly third world hellholes for the situation we are in. They did not do this to us. We did this from within out own borders through acts of financial greed and a false sense of security. In the wild, when animals run out of food, they move to another, more bountiful, territory hoping to find the sustenance they need to survive and grow. This is no different from whats happening in this country today. The 3rd world rats saw us as a great haven of opportunity and moved in for the kill. As little as 40 years ago, we enjoyed convenience and prosperity when other countries lived on dirt floors and ate what they grew or killed. OF COURSE they wanted what we had and what we took for granted. Through their constant culling of our true native resources, such as manufacturing and technology, we allow ourselves to fall from the greatness we once had while they rise to new levels they have not yet earned. Eventually, we will arrive at a new point where all things equal out. Don't blame them. Blame ourselves.

    The only real question here is: Are we too late to fix this mess?

    Unfortunately, their are too many liberals in this country who feel so sorry for everyone and want everything to be a utopia for every single individual. We will probably need another civil war in this country to get it going back in the right direction. Getting rid of the millions of illegals would be a damn good start. Just look at all the jobs they have taken from us. Another problem is the way children are raised these days. I'm sick of all the babying and spoon feeding of these kids these days.

  6. #84
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    Another Walmart is going up down the road from me. They are going up as fast as they can build them.
    70% of their products are from chinese suppliers.

    Years ago, they thought opening up trade with China would be a good thing for us, that we would be able to sell our products to their people.
    But China made sure it would be a one way game.

    After stealing our technology and manufacturing knowledge, with their cheap labor, lack of regulations, and their currency manipulation, there is no way we could compete.

    Most of our cash ends up there now, as well as our debt.
    The people here are all too happy to cash their paychecks, if they still have them, or their unemployment checks, and buy their cheaper products, sending the money back to China.

    And the idiots in our government don't seem to have a clue, or couldn't care less. Not to mention they were more responsible for the housing/financial collapse than anyone, and don't have to answer to anybody for it.

    This will not end well.

    It will continue until our people's standard of living are more in line with China's. Their people's standard of living will improve, but not as much as our's will decline.

    As for the auto companies, they are making the adjustments as we speak. My neighbor works at a plant, still getting his normal pay, with new employees working next to him on the line making less than half of that.

    So goes the auto companies, so goes the rest of us around here, everyone will be adjusted downward eventually.

    I've been in the trade for 35 years, a member of the union for the last 20. Years ago, it used to be just Journeymen and apprentices. Now there are a couple more classifications of workers. Don't really even understand it all, but there are now lower paid workers doing some of the work I used to do. And also apprentices working alone.

    Things are so bad here that I know of one union shop that forced all the techs to take a pay cut. If they complain to the union, well, let's just say noone is complaining.

    I haven't worked in over a year. I'm 55 years old, and like a lot of other people in my position, I am too young to retire, and it seems too old for anyone to want to hire.
    I guess experience means nothing, it's all about production in most contractor's minds. I guess they figure a younger guy will work harder, with less sleep if need be, less questioning of authority, ect.

    I went on an interview at a union shop recently, I thought the interview went well. They had a couple more guys to interview that day. An office girl that was at the interview called me at the end of the day to tell me they hired one of the other guys.
    I asked her what they based their decision on. Did the guy they hire come across as some kind of super tech, or is he a lot younger than me?
    She said one word - "Both".

    I am now looking outside of the union, actally outside of working for contractors in general, I am so fed up with them. Had an interview recently for a maintenance job at a school district, 30% less pay than what I was getting. But I'm o.k. with that, I think I'm ready for that kind of a job. They hired one of the other applicants.
    So I'm looking for other similar opportunities.

    People that I know that have managed to avoid the axe, that still have the same jobs that they have had for some time, really have no idea what it is like.
    Yeah, they might feel less secure in their job, but mostly for them, the unemployment problem is just an article in the newspaper, a story on the nightly news.

    One of my buddies that I used to work with called me after a day recently when it was very cold, snowing, and windy, saying "You're lucky you didn't have to work today". I said that I would have gladly changed places with him.

    Like they say, if your neighbor is out of work it's a recession, if you are out of work, it's a depression.

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplyrollin View Post
    Unfortunately, their are too many liberals in this country who feel so sorry for everyone and want everything to be a utopia for every single individual. We will probably need another civil war in this country to get it going back in the right direction. Getting rid of the millions of illegals would be a damn good start. Just look at all the jobs they have taken from us. Another problem is the way children are raised these days. I'm sick of all the babying and spoon feeding of these kids these days.
    That spoon feeding is meant to fatten the pig up for slaughter. Kids now a days have no clue what "debt slaves" they will become. The "adults" running the show now, simply don't give a damn. Everyone is out for themselves. The kids pick up on this real quick, so it becomes the new normal.
    "Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better"
    -Pat Riley

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenb View Post
    I'm 55 years old, and like a lot of other people in my position, I am too young to retire, and it seems too old for anyone to want to hire.
    I was 52 when the word came down that we needed to "re-engineer" the business, so I took the opportunity to strike out on my own, and have not regretted it. You have skills that are in demand and probably like me you don't realize it until a crisis forces you to, then you react. It is now 9 years later and I am still contributing to society, but preparing for permanent retirement, the experience was an eye opener for me. Marketing my skillsets as an independent entity was the biggest challenge for me, but once some word of mouth got out, I was OK in the workforce again. I think it's all about selling yourself and your capabilities, then proving it to your customers... then again, maybe I'm just lucky...

  9. #87
    Ya know blaming "liberals" is childish and an easy way to say its someone elses fault, not mine.
    Blaming any one group is stupid and solves nothing other than to shift blame from yourself. Don't be a simpleton.
    Most of you guys don't have a clue what a liberal is anyway, so can it.

    Anyway,

    Saw this on the news the other night about Detroit.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...in;contentBody
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me!

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    Bring Em Home....

  10. #88
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    What was the political affiliation of the crowd that boo-ed Bush as He left the White House in a helicopter on His last day in office?
    God, they must be stupid!

  11. #89
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    Don't really know what you mean by a liberal as I'm not into labeling things. But what I know is that there are certain people and organizations in the US that stand in the way of the ingenuity of the working people of this nation. And that is killing this nation.

    And we now have a White House and Congress full of those types of people who are ignorant of the killing of America with their main goal is of feeling good about themselves along with their own pats on their own backs.

    And we have a certain segment of population that support this process who are, more or less, childish in their personal responsibilities and thought processes

    What the film does show is people willing to take a chance in opening their own business or moving their existing business from one expensive area to another area where the expenses are lower in order to just survive.

    But none of them are "growing" towards their own businesses. They did not leave a productive position to move on in growing their own business as had been the case in the history of this nation.

    They have only opened or moved a business through lack of choices in their personal employment situations. They had no job so they opened their own business thereby hiring themselves.

    Our nation is full of people such as shown in this film. The history of our nation was built on the backs of these types of people. And this entrepreneurial spirit has been alive since the very first landing in and around Plymouth Rock.

    However, this does not equal financial and economic success as the film tends to hint. Only time will tell if these people will make it or not. Keep in mind they are opening new businesses that are financially supported by the local neighborhood, which is and has been in financial distress for years. So check back in six month or two years to see if they are still there. I hope they are but the odds are against them.

    One thing is for sure. They have either used their own funds to generate/move these businesses or they have found a local community lender who is funding their businesses/moving.

    That's simply true because there piratically exists no funding in the US for business growth for almost 2 years now.

    You seem defensive against the label "liberal" so I think you must believe yourself to be one. Fine. What difference does it make.

    What I do know is what I see on a day by day basis; and that is this nation is dying while certain groups of people are eating richly off the backs and at the expense of others. And there is very little reasons to believe this will change for the most part in the next years.

    If these people, whatever you want to call them, would and could get out of the way and let individual communities and individuals move in a direction of their choices,business and otherwise, and have only those rules and regulations that are in place to protect and serve the general public, this country would get moving again.

    The one lesson that we all must learn, and learn soon, is that we no longer can depend on anything other then obstructive devices from our Federal, state and local governments. And that we must take over and invest in ourselves and our communities if we are to survive as a nation during this unbelievable period of history in our nation.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  12. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diceman View Post
    Ya know blaming "liberals" is childish and an easy way to say its someone else's fault, not mine.
    Blaming any one group is stupid and solves nothing other than to shift blame from yourself. Don't be a simpleton.
    Most of you guys don't have a clue what a liberal is anyway, so can it.

    Anyway,

    Saw this on the news the other night about Detroit.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...in;contentBody


    Thanks Neat film, still CBS (Central Bull System, Dan Rather's old home) did nothing to dispel the fact that Detroit is the Armpit of America. wait tell that owners former auto workers he hired turn on him and go union. cheap office space is no reason to open an office in that shanty cesspool of town. Detroit died years ago people are now just picking at the bones for real estate deals.
    If common sense is so common how come so few of us have it!

  13. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by secorp View Post
    Thanks Neat film, still CBS (Central Bull System, Dan Rather's old home) did nothing to dispel the fact that Detroit is the Armpit of America. wait tell that owners former auto workers he hired turn on him and go union. cheap office space is no reason to open an office in that shanty cesspool of town. Detroit died years ago people are now just picking at the bones for real estate deals.
    Not to mention it's the muslim capital of the USA, wait untill they blow up a high-rise or two...just sayin

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