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Thread: Sad days

  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACnoob2010 View Post
    How about employees of the big 3 drive what they build to start with! That burns my ass. Work at GM drive a Honda......good job guys! If the guys building them dont believe or help why will anyone else! Both Canada and USA use to make everything they purchase right here in North America.

    I don't mind having a $2-$3 store.
    I think it is funny to see harley guys with their buy american stickers driving hondas and toyotas too.

    I drive only American made vehicles because noone from Japan is going to hire me to build them a house or install an A/C system, smae goes for korean made cars.

    I think it is funny to see Union stickers on foreign vehicles too, I drive by the teamsters local on my way to a job in Tampa and it has a bunch of foreign cars in the parking lot.

    a guy I know is in a union and is laid off more than he works yet his wife drives a toyota, at least he drives a ford, they think the union is great even though he rarely works.

  2. #54
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    Jun 2001
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    Michigan
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    The unfunded pensions are just a huge issue here. Mojo has it right. The situation right now is, no one still knows how this will play out. I myself can not see this being good.

    They just keep kicking the can down the road and the nut is getting bigger and bigger. it will never be funded. How can it be?

    I was at a Retired Ford Engineers home last week fixing his furnace. We got to talking over a cup of coffee after I was done. Now he is an executive retiree, and Ford took all there health care for the retirees. He's paying about $750 a month after medicare to keep the same commensurate health care he and his wife had when he was an active Ford employee. His pension is about half of what it should have been. You might say, oh well. But imagine. You spent 30 years working, planning your retirement and then they change it all after you went to retirement. It's like stealing your life's work.

    Many people think that this area of the country is all about the active workers keeping the economy moving. But more important is the retirees of the big 3 with their comfy retirement who spend money.

    So. It's been a huge major transformation of life around here just as much.

    These companies were grossly irresponsible for 40 years.

    The entire establishment.

    It's shameful what has been done to these employees. Union, executive. There flipping screwed. And no one gives a $hit. It's easy to say this when you see it from afar. It's a different reality here. And this is why I bring it up here. I want people to know how hard it is. I want people to understand this.

  3. #55
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    May 2007
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    Ct
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    499
    Face it guys. Our time has come to pass.

    We turned into a society that waits for "someone else" to fix our problems. People these days are more concerned about what's on netflix tonight, how many friends we have on fagbook, waiting in line for the latest and greatest cell phone to come out, etc, etc.... We turned into a selfish, useless society that will get on twitter and tweet a thousand people we will never meet about what color shirt we are wearing today before we pick up a fking phone and call a family member to see how they are doing.

    Don't blame the formerly third world hellholes for the situation we are in. They did not do this to us. We did this from within out own borders through acts of financial greed and a false sense of security. In the wild, when animals run out of food, they move to another, more bountiful, territory hoping to find the sustenance they need to survive and grow. This is no different from whats happening in this country today. The 3rd world rats saw us as a great haven of opportunity and moved in for the kill. As little as 40 years ago, we enjoyed convenience and prosperity when other countries lived on dirt floors and ate what they grew or killed. OF COURSE they wanted what we had and what we took for granted. Through their constant culling of our true native resources, such as manufacturing and technology, we allow ourselves to fall from the greatness we once had while they rise to new levels they have not yet earned. Eventually, we will arrive at a new point where all things equal out. Don't blame them. Blame ourselves.

    The only real question here is: Are we too late to fix this mess?

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    It's such a tough nut to crack open and sort out the reality and gravity of the problems.

    I don't really think their is a conspiracy of new world order. I don't think the most powerful in this land and others sat down 50 years ago and devised this grand plan.

    I don't think anyone anticipated the change at such a rapid pace that the world economy has taken such steps in so little time. No one could predict the impact of technology.

    So were reacting. And were not learning from our losing.

    The solutions are always about fixing problems with problems. I see the entitlement culture being a out of control runaway train. Were trying to make this trajectory down a few notches as least painful as possible. We don't have the discipline to pull up our britches an compete. Our competitiors are willing to sacrafice more, work harder and they know this about us. They know were lazy. They know we are arrogant and not willing to do the work required.
    I don't think this really is a conspiracy. I think it's a normal growth process fueled by technology..the technology we invented to give ourselves a better life, ironically.

    We, the USA, and the skilled field workers especially, are being most affected by this change along with the laziness of the US, which only compounds the problem.

    But it's going to show itself across the board in a very few years.

    You think it's only us, the working people in the field. Nope. Talking to one of my doctors a while back and said to him you realize that your job is going to be lost during your life span too. He was shocked to hear that.

    So I explained to him that he thinks he's not replaceable due to all his training and medical education/knowledge but then I got into this scenario that is soon to happen....actually it's already happening.

    For instance, I told him, you take the normal tests and then go into more difficult test of the human body looking for signs. In a few years if not 10 to 20 years you will be replaced by a machine.

    I call, as a patient, to make an appointment. A machine answers, sets up my appointment and instruct me where and when to go.

    I show up and check in with a machine. Go to the floor as instructed to wait in line for a machine that can sense and read all the primarily testing that you do by hand; blood pressure, heart beat, on and on.

    The machine interprets that info based on billions of other stored data and makes a decision for me to go to another machine that can do blood tests on the spot and then analyze the results based on billions of other stored data and make a decision from that point.

    No one human has been involved so far. I can have all this done in two days or two hours vs. waiting two weeks to see you, a human.

    So I need a minor/major operation. A machine can also assist me with that as sensors have been developed and robot arms have been developed to perform operation with machines all monitoring the procedure in process.

    There are already robotic arms now used in surgery. Most of the analyzing is already done in labs with techs only inserting the blood or so in a machine and waiting for printout. Well, that printout can now go directly to another machine for interpretation in place of using a "doctor."

    Needless to say, this guy was pretty much in shock with the reality of my information. I told him that in your life time you probably will need to find at least three other forms of making a living.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  5. #57
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    I don't think this really is a conspiracy. I think it's a normal growth process fueled by technology..the technology we invented to give ourselves a better life, ironically.

    We, the USA, and the skilled field workers especially, are being most affected by this change along with the laziness of the US, which only compounds the problem.

    But it's going to show itself across the board in a very few years.

    You think it's only us, the working people in the field. Nope. Talking to one of my doctors a while back and said to him you realize that your job is going to be lost during your life span too. He was shocked to hear that.

    So I explained to him that he thinks he's not replaceable due to all his training and medical education/knowledge but then I got into this scenario that is soon to happen....actually it's already happening.

    For instance, I told him, you take the normal tests and then go into more difficult test of the human body looking for signs. In a few years if not 10 to 20 years you will be replaced by a machine.

    I call, as a patient, to make an appointment. A machine answers, sets up my appointment and instruct me where and when to go.

    I show up and check in with a machine. Go to the floor as instructed to wait in line for a machine that can sense and read all the primarily testing that you do by hand; blood pressure, heart beat, on and on.

    The machine interprets that info based on billions of other stored data and makes a decision for me to go to another machine that can do blood tests on the spot and then analyze the results based on billions of other stored data and make a decision from that point.

    No one human has been involved so far. I can have all this done in two days or two hours vs. waiting two weeks to see you, a human.

    So I need a minor/major operation. A machine can also assist me with that as sensors have been developed and robot arms have been developed to perform operation with machines all monitoring the procedure in process.

    There are already robotic arms now used in surgery. Most of the analyzing is already done in labs with techs only inserting the blood or so in a machine and waiting for printout. Well, that printout can now go directly to another machine for interpretation in place of using a "doctor."

    Needless to say, this guy was pretty much in shock with the reality of my information. I told him that in your life time you probably will need to find at least three other forms of making a living.
    Nice story. But in reality We all thought we would be flying around like George Jetson and living on Mars too. IMO your Doctor probably won't have to change jobs once let alone three times. Yes the world is changing in many ways, but not to that extent.

  6. #58
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    There is a class of americans who understand all the implications of the past present and future. But the majority of americans are just interested in their immediate life, location and situation.

    These people are very aware of the conditions. You want the truth don't look to tv or mainstream media to deliver. Look to the financial world. They don't care who's ox gets gored. They will play both sides of the bet to win.

    You too can be a winner join 'em. There are some very rich and comfortable people in this country who don't work for a living. Not many though and they don't care about your pissing and moaning.

    You can count on the fact that they are betting right now if you going to piss or moan and some one will take that bet and hedge it.

    So says...the Godfather of the Rothschild Banking Cartel of Europe....

    "Give me control of a nation's money supply
    and I care not who makes the laws."

    Last edited by Snoring Beagle; 12-25-2010 at 05:37 PM.


    Expect nothing, yet expect the unexpected.
    Press on Regardless, Endeavor to Persevere.

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas-Tech View Post
    A lot of the issues lie with the contracts that were made between workers and management and or cities. To stay there and make X amount of money for 20 years then get a retirement package that is worth 2 or 3 times that amount is an unsustainable liability for everyone else.

    It would have been ok if all the manufacturing companies had stayed in business, the greedy ones in charge had made better decisions, congress would have kicked out the lobbyists years ago and more of the american people would have payed attention to what was going on in their own govt.

    What is the average % of people here that VOTE? Pretty much says a lot.

    I grew up in Pontiac, Mi in 1950. My mother and stepfather both raised their families with the auto plants. Life was good for Detroit back then but I never liked the Union way of doing business so I left as soon as I could and came to Texas.

    We are all in Deep Sheit, whether you believe it or not I really don't see any way out. It's gonna get real ugly real fast.
    There is no way out because the "progressive" stuff done to our business environment will not be repealed, and that is the basis of why it costs too much to make stuff here.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  8. #60
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    I think technology is impacting things a great deal. Now whether it's at a pace that will keep on moving along at pace predicting the end of a doctor being a doctor, that is to be seen. Is it possible? It might be. My gosh look how fast things are moving right now. The fastest ever.

    But. I think technology is hugely impacting productivity to where we now have excess capacity. Seriously. Think about the internet. Think about how communicating takes place. Think about how a design of something can be shared, conveyed, transcribed, executed. In seconds.

    That alone. but then think of the idea of automation, Think hard about the possibilities that are just around the corner. Yikes.

    I think that the US has to really get back to education. Science and Math. Start at education. Fund it with every penny till it hurts.

    Then.

    Create as least of a resistance to a path of creation and entrepreneurial pursuits. Take the bull %hit bureaucracy out of the game. Let those kids who will learn then create.

    We need brains. We need creative brains. And we need everyone to be that way.

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    I think that the US has to really get back to education. Science and Math. Start at education. Fund it with every penny till it hurts.

    Then.

    Create as least of a resistance to a path of creation and entrepreneurial pursuits. Take the bull %hit bureaucracy out of the game. Let those kids who will learn then create.

    We need brains. We need creative brains. And we need everyone to be that way.
    It is a fallacy to link spending money with a good educational outcome. No country on the planet spends more money on "education" than we do. And look at how much money India spends, and most of their fifth graders can speak English with more proficiency than an inner city high school student.

    No, its a cultural problem. It is the idea that studying and achieving is thought of as "acting white."

    It is the idea that every kid gets a trophy and not just the winners.

    It is the game we play with test scores and what is actually being taught.

    It has to start with families, peer groups, and the agenda of the teachers.

    Not more money.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    It is a fallacy to link spending money with a good educational outcome. No country on the planet spends more money on "education" than we do. And look at how much money India spends, and most of their fifth graders can speak English with more proficiency than an inner city high school student.

    No, its a cultural problem. It is the idea that studying and achieving is thought of as "acting white."

    It is the idea that every kid gets a trophy and not just the winners.

    It is the game we play with test scores and what is actually being taught.

    It has to start with families, peer groups, and the agenda of the teachers.

    Not more money.
    well, whatever has to happen, education has to be number one.

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    well, whatever has to happen, education has to be number one.
    People have to believe that without an education, they will have a very bad life. That's the motivation in India.

    Here, if you have no education, there are so many government programs and support mechanisms, no one believes that they will have a terrible time without an education. Too many guys who can't write their own name with lots of money from crime, or welfare.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  12. #64
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    Kansas City, Kansas, United States
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    you are both correct!

    Education is what will help turn this around in the next 20-50 years!

    Money can't buy love or intelligence!


    YOU BUT A KID A DONKEY TO GET TO SCHOOL ON AND A PILE OF BOOKS!

    BUT ALL HE DOES IS, STAND ON THE PILE OF BOOKS AND F^%K THE DONKEY!







    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    It is a fallacy to link spending money with a good educational outcome. No country on the planet spends more money on "education" than we do. And look at how much money India spends, and most of their fifth graders can speak English with more proficiency than an inner city high school student.

    No, its a cultural problem. It is the idea that studying and achieving is thought of as "acting white."

    It is the idea that every kid gets a trophy and not just the winners.

    It is the game we play with test scores and what is actually being taught.

    It has to start with families, peer groups, and the agenda of the teachers.

    Not more money.
    I WILL SELL WORK,GENERATE BUSINESS, GO GET NEW CUSTOMERS!
    YOU SHUT THE HELL UP AND QUIT RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!

  13. #65
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    Aug 2007
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    971
    Education and Opportunity to use it...

    Get a handle on why things are the way they are now...

    Give them the power over a country's money supply and they care not who makes the laws. This ain't about the two parties or segments of society or who gets what, when or where. Fight amongst yourselves and you get no where.

    Catch this movie if you can...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2DRm5ES-uA


    Expect nothing, yet expect the unexpected.
    Press on Regardless, Endeavor to Persevere.

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