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Thread: Sad days

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  1. #1
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    Sad days

    I try to convey often on here to you friends around the country how difficult it is here in MI with the economy and such. Now a lot of the guys from MI, including me, who are on this site, were doing okay. Were making money and fixing heat. But it's not so for the majority of the population here.

    In another example. On the News this AM, an article about the closing of GM Willow Run. Opened Dec 8, 1941. The plant has been idle for the last several years. It's official closed date is Dec 10, 2010. This is a vast 88 acre complex. At it's peak, 14,000 employees worked there 7 days a week. It started as a plant that made the bombers for WW2, then later after the war was retooled and made many many many GM cars.

    Final Auctioning was complete this last week, basically buyers from all around the world, from China, to India and beyond came in, bought the contents of the building, such as the robots and everything in between for pennies on the dollar. The complex will be demolished at a later date.

    So here is what you have folks. Some say. It's the union guy leaning against the broom, overpaid. It's his fault. Really?

    This sequence of events has repeated here over the last 10 years so many times, it's just so sad. Plant after plant. Before long it's gonna catch up with us. It's here. That time is here.

    America. What do others think of us? There was an Indian Business man who was interviewed for this article. He came here to buy up tooling to take back to India. He was saying how he goes around our country buying things up and sending it back to India. He said. "this country is dying and the rest of the world knows it. so they are coming to buy".

  2. #2
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    I think a lot of it has to do with how the state is ran. Our governor goes to foreign countries to get them to invest and build factories in our own state. We have had several open that employs hundreds. The way the world does business is changing. Its more about making things for the world not just for your neighbor. If they are unable to change the world will pass them by.

    My parents moved to northern Michigan to retire. I know the problems you are having. They volunteer at the food pantry and help where they can. tried starting a garden center for those in need in order to teach them to grow there own veg.

    But the area seems unwilling to change. Dad has brought up several ideas to entice business to relocate. All shot down because they dont understand logistics or enticements.

  3. #3
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    Just as you have related how bad things are in MI, I have tried many times on this site to explain "why."

    It's costs.

    The Indian businessman does not have the costs that Willow Run had.

    Billions in pensions and retirement health insurance.

    In India? Zip.

    Product litigation. A kid gets his had caught in a door, and he can't play piano. Millions in costs.

    In India? He learns to do something else.

    Harassment claims. Millions.

    India? Not a dime.

    EPA? NAACP? OSHA?

    Nope.

    In fact, NONE of the countries that see us as "dying" have the cost structure that WE have, here in the US.

    Someday, yes, they will have some of it. Not all of it, because they will learn form the mistakes we made, all with great intentions, mind you.

    We have tried to create a workplace nirvana. The trouble is, no one can afford to operate it.

    It's that simple.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowirenut View Post
    But the area seems unwilling to change. Dad has brought up several ideas to entice business to relocate. All shot down because they dont understand logistics or enticements.
    I think you are right, when people have a mindset that things should always be the same, then we open our society up to catastrophic economic swings, with consequences that are largely unpredictable. Just like the Luddites in Britain, when spinning machines were introduced, they tried to burn down the facilities that produced and used them, but that was the beginning of a better way of life for all. Prior to mass production, most of our ancestors were very poor, struggling for all of what we would consider to be very basic needs, like food, clothing and shelter.

    Industrialization has brought many more benefits than problems, but as others have pointed out, we've become complacent, and now likely resentful that the "third world" is also moving forward. Our society is not going down the tubes, we are just being forced to change whether we like it or not. Am quite sure that we (Western democratic industrial societies) will continue to live in the best conditions on the planet, warts and all...

    Just my $0.02 worth, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    I think you are right, when people have a mindset that things should always be the same, then we open our society up to catastrophic economic swings, with consequences that are largely unpredictable. Just like the Luddites in Britain, when spinning machines were introduced, they tried to burn down the facilities that produced and used them, but that was the beginning of a better way of life for all. Prior to mass production, most of our ancestors were very poor, struggling for all of what we would consider to be very basic needs, like food, clothing and shelter.

    Industrialization has brought many more benefits than problems, but as others have pointed out, we've become complacent, and now likely resentful that the "third world" is also moving forward. Our society is not going down the tubes, we are just being forced to change whether we like it or not. Am quite sure that we (Western democratic industrial societies) will continue to live in the best conditions on the planet, warts and all...

    Just my $0.02 worth, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
    We are far beyond a comparison to the Luddites. And, many good arguments can be made against the "benefits" of the industrial revolution. Many people were "poor" by a standard that we can apply from our centrally heated structures today, but it is incorrect to say that the previous lifestyles were not of value in a social and political sense. Their lives were simply "normal" for them, and in their time.

    Our problem is that our complacency is bound together with a set of ideas based on social entitlements, rather than social responsibilities.

    The third world has no entitlements, and they understand that you must be responsible, or you will die.

    This is what we see happening in Greece. We cannot afford, and neither can the Greeks or anyone else, to have a society with a mandated, government supported standard of living as outlined by Cloward and Piven.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    We are far beyond a comparison to the Luddites. And, many good arguments can be made against the "benefits" of the industrial revolution. Many people were "poor" by a standard that we can apply from our centrally heated structures today, but it is incorrect to say that the previous lifestyles were not of value in a social and political sense. Their lives were simply "normal" for them, and in their time.
    By poor, I meant in terms of life's basic needs, but historically their (ordinary people's) lives were not rich socially or politically either, mostly revolving around various forms of slavery/indenturement and seeking refuge/solace in mainly religious activities. The "norm" of those days led to revolution and massive political changes, including democracy as we understand it today. The third world will eventually catch up with these ideas of ours, but no doubt they will go through their own periods of extreme social/political unrest to get there. As you point out, even now we are rethinking our ideas about what constitutes our obligation to our fellow human beings, so the process is constantly evolving and changing. We eventually take what works and turf what does not, that is part of our democratic way of life, something that many regimes in our world have not learned or accepted yet, but they eventually will. Perhaps there is a "better" system, but at this point in time what we have now has worked better than any other... (just my opinion)...

    An extremely complex topic, and certainly related to our everyday lives, but as history shows, solutions are long and hard in coming...
    Last edited by enb54; 12-26-2010 at 06:07 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    By poor, I meant in terms of life's basic needs, but historically their (ordinary people's) lives were not rich socially or politically either, mostly revolving around various forms of slavery/indenturement and seeking refuge/solace in mainly religious activities. The "norm" of those days led to revolution and massive political changes, including democracy as we understand it today. The third world will eventually catch up with these ideas of ours, but no doubt they will go through their own periods of extreme social/political unrest to get there. As you point out, even now we are rethinking our ideas about what constitutes our obligation to our fellow human beings, so the process is constantly evolving and changing. We eventually take what works and turf what does not, that is part of our democratic way of life, something that many regimes in our world have not learned or accepted yet, but they eventually will. Perhaps there is a "better" system, but at this point in time what we have now has worked better than any other... (just my opinion)...

    An extremely complex topic, and certainly related to our everyday lives, but as history shows, solutions are long and hard in coming...
    We are indentured slaves today. Once it was to a King in a fiefdom. Today, it is to a government that desires to redistribute wealth.

    As to lifestyle, I think the fiefdom had many advantages over what we have today. Hard work is the cure for many ills, and too many people here have neither hard work nor work at all. They have an idle life of being subjects, rather than citizens.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  8. #8
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    D, nothing goes unplanned. All this sheit was orchestrated by elitists because our life style is not sustainable (and other reasons). This is just the beginning....wait until you start to see states separating themselves from the country (secession). The middle class will be a memory and so will property ownership.

    New world order, world bank, world government etc.

    Have a cache of food, water, and ammunition....youre gunna need it.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  9. #9
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    You got that right coolwhip, it`s coming to that. Get prepaird.

  10. #10
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    Everyone(ok, not everyone) thinks armageddon(Good Christmas word) is coming in their lifetime. So far everyone has been wrong. The economy is showing some signs of life. The Stock Market has had its second strong year in a row and they are saying holiday shopping has been very strong. Things tend to go in cycles and nothing lasts forever. I believe we will adapt and survive........for now.

  11. #11
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    Not Armageddon...just drastic change, and not for the better. You will see soon enough.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  12. #12
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    The welfare mentality is 90% of what is killing us.

    Why work hard when you can get handouts?
    UA LU189

    10mm, because it's better than .45acp

  13. #13
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    My sad day was yesterday and it's non economical.

    Found out my boss is dying of Hodgkins Disease. I practically broke down and cried in front of him just before setting myself on fire.

    Carry on.

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