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  1. #14
    Originally posted by rfelectron
    You don't need strips at all. I live in a 5500 htsf all electric house in SC with 7T of 12 seer HP's. That's 785sf/T. All the strips are disconnected. My avg. KWH for Jan05 was 105 and it got down to 16F a couple of times. I have 3 systems with 3 stats and all held their set points at 16F ODA without ANY strip heat. You have 1500/3.5= 428sf/T was is 83% MORE cap. than I have and you're in a warmer climate. Unless you live in a tent you have more than enough heating cap. without any strips. The only thing the strips will do is mask a problem with your HP in heating mode. With the strips disconnected you will know when the HP isn't working so you can get it fixed. Then what do you figure will happen during defrost rfelectron?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,071
    Originally posted by rfelectron
    You don't need strips at all.
    You can't mnake a blanket statement to that effect old pal. Some homes need strip heat when the outdoor temp gets below 50, while others don't need it till the outdoor temp gets to 0. And every conceivable point in between.

    He needs a cmopetent contractor who cares to come see what his problem really is.

    ow you been Reflex?
    Hindsight is NOT a plan!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,071
    Originally posted by jeffkillen
    Then what do you figure will happen during defrost rfelectron?
    Many people do not have strip heat during defrost, either by their own choice, their contractor's recommendation, or the manufacturer's design intent. Most (notice I did not say "all?") people never notice.
    Hindsight is NOT a plan!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,081
    Good greif, with those kind of temps, you must leave the door open to need 15k of strip.

    If he won't fix that leak, contact trane and get another contractor.


    A new system shouldn't have any leaks.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    534

    Thumbs up

    I'll come fix it for ya, what's for dinner
    "If you can't fix it, don't break it."

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    516
    Hi Bama,
    Great to see you back! Did you retire and purchase an island?

    Here's what I was thinking re: the strips:
    He's got a 14 seer HP which has a very good HSPF, much better than my 12 seer units. He's got at least 83% more BTU capacity per SF than I have. A ton from Trane actually equals a ton. From Goodman (my units) it's always a little less. He's in a much warmer climate than I am.
    You're right of course as usual, I shouldn't tell him he doesn't need strips without seeing the house. A 3.5T 14 seer Trane may not provide enough heating BTU's without help from the strips for his 1500 htsf house. He may be living in tent after all!

    Jeff,
    What happens when it's in the teens every time a heat pump WITH strips comes on? You get cold air out of the supply ducts until the HP runs long enough to start warming the air right? What do you do about it? You locate the supply vents so they are blowing up or down exterior walls and NOT directly onto the occupants. If your vents are located correctly and people aren't standing above or below a vent then it doesn't matter if cold air blows for a couple min. when the unit comes on or when it defrosts. We don't even notice it.

    [Edited by rfelectron on 02-22-2005 at 11:25 PM]

  7. #20
    Gentlemen -

    Okay, it's low on freon as the upstairs handler had ice on the coils when I checked it this evening. My wife had been running the AC today. So I am going to call the Dallas Trane office tomorrow and ask for a recommendation from the FSR, or are they allowed to do that?

    And what are my options if they want to check the line in the wall? I think it's in the outside wall of my kids closet, I can tear out the gyp and shelving if need be. Whatever it takes to get this fixed, but would prefer an easier fix.

    Here is how my DIP switches are set:

    1 - Off
    2 - On
    3 - Off
    4 - Off

    For a 3.5 ton outside unit, this is "Normal (400 CFM/ton)"

    5 - On
    6 - On

    Sets to Enhanced Ramp Up mode

    7 - On
    8 - Off

    Sets to "Med. High, 1400 CFM"

    Stef -

    I'm a Sir :-)

    My return grill is 20x30, so that gives me 4.375 sq ft of grill. I can only use a 1" filter. For a filter I use DirtDemon DustShield from Lowes, MERV 6, changed out every 30 days. I buy a years worth at a time and keep them in the attic.

    So which of the touchscreen stats are better? Looks like Honeywell has several models of the 8000. Are they better than the T8024 I already have? What are the difficulties of wiring it for 2 stages cool/three stages heat?

    I'd think it'd be fairly hard to get all that out of a tech without giving him a list. When I was getting bids 2 years ago everyone looked at me like I had three eyes when I asked for load calcs.

    duct dr - sure, all the BBQ you can eat if ya wanna come fix it!

    rfelectron -

    Hhhmmm, no, don't live in a tent. House is about 8 years old, 1500 sq ft, brick one story. You can see it in the background of these pics:

    http://www.74-77camaro.com/99Formula...s/P0000147.JPG
    http://www.74-77camaro.com/99Formula...s/P0000149.JPG

    And the $64k question - what am I looking at to get a line leak repaired? As I mentioned earlier, if it's inside the units, I think the Ext. warranty should cover it. Then there's the connections on the straight run over to the wall, down the wall, and out to the HP. Three straight shots.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    516
    Stef,
    I didn't think you lived in a tent. I bet if you clicked on the load calc. link at the top of this page and actually performed a load calc on your house you would see that your HP ALONE with no back up strips has more cap. than your heat loss at the design conditions for your location. Get the Trane expanded performance ratings for your unit and you will see a graph of heating BTU vs. ODA. Compare the heating BTU at the design ODA off the graph to the heat loss from your load calc. I'm betting the heating BTU is greater by a good margin. Be sure to let me know if I'm right or wrong if you decide to do a load calc.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    A load calculation would need to be performed to be sure, but I can tell you this with a great deal of confidence. Even if it is a fairly poorly built tract home, a 3.5 ton system in a modern 1500 square foot home in the DFW area is oversized by at least half a ton if you go by the normal design conditions used in the area. That is assuming you didn't tell your HVAC contractor that you wanted to be able to do something silly like keep it 70 in the house when it is 105 outside....


    It is to late to do anything about the sizing of it now without changing the system out, but as others have said, you need to get a contractor out that has a clue. If you go to Trane's web site there is a link to find a contractor in your area. It will give you a list of a few Comfort Specialist dealers that service your area.
    A dealer being a Trane Comfort Specialist doesn't guarantee that the technician that shows up at your door will be the sharpest tool in the shed, but to be a Comfort Specialist dealer, the contractor has to jump through some extra hoops with Trane when it comes to customer service and training of employees.
    Generally there is a $25 fee for transfereing your 10 year parts and labor warranty to have a different dealer as your servicer, but if you call Trane, they may waive it since you are having a problem with your current dealer.

    We have fantastic dealer and customer support from Trane in the DFW area, Trane WILL see to it that your problems with the system are resolved.

    [Edited by mark beiser on 02-23-2005 at 03:16 AM]
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  10. #23
    Originally posted by mark beiser


    A dealer being a Trane Comfort Specialist doesn't guarantee that the technician that shows up at your door will be the sharpest tool in the shed, but to be a Comfort Specialist dealer, the contractor has to jump through some extra hoops with Trane when it comes to customer service and training of employees.

    [Edited by mark beiser on 02-23-2005 at 03:16 AM]
    I got a list of the Comfort Specialist Dealers in my zip last night, and my current installer is one of the seven listed, so that didn't help me much. He's a one man outfit (w/ helper) so I guess I need to go to a larger outfit. According to their websites, one has 7 techs, another 5 techs, one had one tech, and my current installer. The others didn't list details.

  11. #24
    Originally posted by rfelectron
    Stef,
    I didn't think you lived in a tent. I bet if you clicked on the load calc. link at the top of this page and actually performed a load calc on your house you would see that your HP ALONE with no back up strips has more cap. than your heat loss at the design conditions for your location. Get the Trane expanded performance ratings for your unit and you will see a graph of heating BTU vs. ODA. Compare the heating BTU at the design ODA off the graph to the heat loss from your load calc. I'm betting the heating BTU is greater by a good margin. Be sure to let me know if I'm right or wrong if you decide to do a load calc.
    I'm sure you are probably right, and I'm also taking my attic insulation from R-30 to R-55. In a previous life, I was a commercial architect, but I never had to do much load calcs outside of college. When I first had the system installed in '02 I dl'd HVAC-Calc but I didn't run it or buy it.

    My elec bills have always been high, and I'm trying to figure out why.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    39
    Dear sir,

    Now we are in some right track.

    1) your dip switch are good

    2) you need to fix the leak and let a PROFESSIONAL do it. Sure it cost you if the leak is not in the unit. You rather have it fixed right than fix it wrong. It will cost you much more if the flame gets out of hand and burn some thing else (your house)

    3) the freon must be taken ALL OUT and replace with a new clean freon. 410A is a mix, thus it will not be pure when it leaks out alot (sound like you loose alot). BEST TO HAVE NEW FREON.

    4) as far as you use your 1" filter is OK. As long as when you open your return grill out and NOTHING behind it (2x4 stud), you can put a 4" filter in. I have it my house, and I sold many of them every year. 4" filter will have more surface area, thus it is less noise.

    5) once the leak is repair, then ask technician to go thru the list I give you.

    6) When the list are filled, then I'll show you how to hook up two stage thermostat.

    7) If the system perporms well, and then properly control with multi-stage heat strips. You don't care much how many KW in it. IT IS ONLY A MACHINE, AND WE ARE CONTROLLING IT.

    Have fun

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Originally posted by BamaCracker
    Originally posted by rfelectron
    You don't need strips at all.
    You can't mnake a blanket statement to that effect old pal. Some homes need strip heat when the outdoor temp gets below 50, while others don't need it till the outdoor temp gets to 0. And every conceivable point in between.

    He needs a cmopetent contractor who cares to come see what his problem really is.

    ow you been Reflex?
    You're so polite
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

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