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  1. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    I know I would get a good discussion if I continued this with you but I already know our views are more alike than not. I'll pick on someone else.
    I thank you for letting me know this.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonafan View Post
    Nah, our priest was into the little Haitian boys in my class. Jealous???
    Not at all. Haitian boys have never done anything for me.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #159
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    Scientists take the side of whom ever pays their way.
    I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.

    Veto Pro Pak - The best tool bag you'll ever own






  4. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    I was debating using the term scientific reasoning, was thinking more of critical reasoning but I was not sure some would understand.

    Someone walks down the street proclaiming themselves the Son of God and people believe him? I would think the standards of today would probably be a little stiffer than they were back then. Also comes from having news agencies that spend time questioning events.
    I wouldn't be so certain of these things. The Hebrew scriptures foretold the coming of the Hebrew messiah, which to the Jews of over two millenia ago meant a Jewish king who would defeat all of the enemies of the Jews and give Jews rule over the world. The Christian understanding of these prophesies is that the Jews simply misunderstood God's intent for a messiah.

    Never the less, especially after having over a century of being victors over the Greeks only to be taken over by the new bullies, the Romans, Jews were looking forward to the prohesied messiah and the timing was right in line with prophecy. Even knowing that their messiah was coming, Jews of the turn of the century B.C./A.D. did not accept others who claimed to be the messiah or who others claimed was the messiah. Two who claimed to be the prophesied messiah are Simon of Peraea, son of Joseph and Athronges, both noted by in Josephus's Jewish Antiquities. Even Jesus's cousin John, who was baptizing Jews in preparation for the Messiah, was thought by many to be the prophesied messiah. All three of these men were killed with no hints of being messianic after their deaths.

    Prior to Jesus's rising from the grave, He was pretty much considered in the same vein as the other claimed messiah's. So, even Jesus in His own time faced stiff opposition to the claims that He was the prophesied Messiah because the standards were as high, if not higher, during that time when a messiah was prophesied to come.

    As for media attention, this too is relevant for all times. We tend to think of Jerusalem as some podunk backwoods no-nothing town, when in fact, it was a major central hub for trade throughout the Middle East from Europe to and from Northern Africa. Jerusalem had plenty of the much needed salt for keeping food items from going bad and for seaoning. This is why Rome needed to control this region so badly. All of the major port cities in the time of Jesus are mentioned in the Bible. There was no better place in the world for news to become available throughout the world then in Jerusalem.

    Today's standards for accepting Jesus as the Messiah! Hell, just look at some of the jackass's that people today latch on to. A good read on this subject is Paul L Maier's More Then a Skeleton; http://books.google.com/books?id=ulE...page&q&f=false

    Not as good as his prequel; A Skeleton in God's Closet, but fit in with what we are talking about here, and it is a really entertaining novel. Paul Maier is a professor of ancient history who usually writes non-fiction but has a few very entertaining and educational fiction novels in which he uses real historical events to weave a fictitious story around. His main character in the skeleton books is a cross between James Bond, Indiana Jones and nice guy in the neighborhood.

    Why is it that we had most of our religious faiths develop around the same time in history?
    I don't follow you on this one. The most really prominent different religions of the world developed centuries if not millenia apart from one another. We can start with the unknown faiths of prehistoric man that we know existed from cave art and stone carvings. A monotheistic religion of ancient Eqypt was quite influential as were the many polytheistic Pagan faiths from many regions, including Eqypt, that followed. Then of course there is Abraham and his covenant that spawned two of the three currently most influential religions of the world and is hijacked by the third. Interestingly, the base religion that is responsible if very different ways for the two largest religions of the world, is itself one of the smallest religions in quantity yet one of the most prominent religions in how it affects the entire world.
    How is it that the God of the bible first wanted sacrifices to him and as time went on he turned into a more kinder gentler god? Did his word develop over time in response to the intellectual capacity of man?
    I believe that mankind is literally made in the image of God, as the Bible tells us we are. Since God is not a physical being, after all, God did not Create Himself, that lesson from scripture cannot possibly mean that in any way can we be made in a physical likeness of God. God is purely what we refer to as spiritual. At the very least that makes God one dimensional to us because God has no physical shape. So, how can scripture's telling us that we are made in the image of God if God has no physical image? I believe that scripture is telling us that we are made in the spiritual image of God. In other words, we are spiritually and emotionally like God. If this is the case, then our non-physical characteristics must also be God's characteristics. That means that God gets angry, sad, happy, etc. I'll leave out characteristics that relate to physical stimuli because God, not being physical, would not have the stimuli to cause those characteristics.

    However, this would certainly explain God's characteristic growth toward His Creation as God better understands us, especially having be incarnate as one of us in Jesus of Nazareth.

    So, no, I don't believe God has developed over time according to mankind's changes, but rather to God's own developement in understanding us and how to deal best with us.
    How much of the bible is his words and how much are those of the people he used to write the stories?
    I personally have the faith to believe that all words in scripture that are attributed to God's Word are inspired Truths from God. The fact that we keep finding older and older versions of scripture that proves that scripture has not been altered other then by error of translation, tells me that man has not manipulated the will of God as it is told in scripture. Sure, the telephone game is fun, but with scripture we are talking about a telephone line that stretches from today to over 2000 years ago, and the message remains the same.
    Kind of hard to find the missing link when these poor bodies were only meant to be on this earth for a short time, dust to dust as the saying goes. You would think with all the animals that have been on this world we would be up to our armpits in bones by now. Well that is if they were made to last.
    Very true, but a link between the earliest man and any other life form prior to man's seeming to just pop up on planet Earth, should be available in at least some form of evidence. We certainly have enough other animals records in fossils and the such, so why not man?

    The most logical answer is that we simply have not yet found the place where our evidence exists. Since we have been pretty much everywhere habitibal on Earth, logic then tells us to either look in the unihabital regions or maybe even elsewhere then planet Earth.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    We have fewer wars now than we have in the past. Fewer people are being killed by violence, people are living longer. We do not accept violence against women and children as we did in the past. We have fewer people living at the substance level. On topic, we hear very few cases of gay bashing now days.

    How is that?
    Hmmm, I just added up a bunch of easily found statistics and it seems that there were more wars in the 20th century then in any other century, resulting in more deaths in the 20th century then in any other century, more people killed by non-war violence in the 20th century then any other century, and the 21st century is starting out even worse.

    violence against women has risen dramatically over the past 30 years in Muslim and South American countries and China and really.....if homosexuals would just stop acting like such flaming fags we wouldn't even give a crap what they suck and where they stick their peckers.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by air2spare View Post
    This article would make Darwin ILL?

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/tec...lised_tooth-0/
    I doubt it. Actually, Darwin was ill most of his life. Unfortunately, there are many claims made in Darwin's name that Darwin would never concede to. Darwin didn't even like using the term "evolution" unless it was very specific.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Hmmm, I just added up a bunch of easily found statistics and it seems that there were more wars in the 20th century then in any other century, resulting in more deaths in the 20th century then in any other century, more people killed by non-war violence in the 20th century then any other century, and the 21st century is starting out even worse.

    violence against women has risen dramatically over the past 30 years in Muslim and South American countries and China and really.....if homosexuals would just stop acting like such flaming fags we wouldn't even give a crap what they suck and where they stick their peckers.


    Yup, RoBo you are so correct. I easily located these figures.

    Stalin 1932 – 1933 7 million
    Hitler 1938 – 1945 6 million
    Pol Pot 1975 – 1979 2 million

    Legal abortion in the United States since 1973
    50 million unborn human lives.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  8. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas-Tech View Post
    Scientists take the side of whom ever pays their way.
    This is an unfortunate major factor. This is also why government should not be involved in the sciences or the arts. Back when a scientist had to persuade some rich folk that what they wanted to attempt to prove was worth those rich folk giving the scientist money to explore his theories, that scientist had better have something truly interesting and worthwhile going on. Now, scientists get government grants for some of the dumbest and most worthless projects or become the proof patsies for some government beauracrat looking to make him or her self famous.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Yup, RoBo you are so correct. I easily located these figures.

    Stalin 1932 – 1933 7 million
    Hitler 1938 – 1945 6 million
    Pol Pot 1975 – 1979 2 million

    Legal abortion in the United States since 1973
    50 million unborn human lives.
    Those are just individuals. War during the 20th century claimed at least 70.8 million lives with some estimates as high as 166 million lives.

    We do have less deaths from common illnesses and plague.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I wouldn't be so certain of these things. The Hebrew scriptures foretold the coming of the Hebrew messiah, ... All three of these men were killed with no hints of being messianic after their deaths.

    Prior to Jesus's rising from the grave, He was pretty much considered in the same vein as the other claimed messiah's. So, even Jesus in His own time faced stiff opposition to the claims that He was the prophesied Messiah because the standards were as high, if not higher, during that time when a messiah was prophesied to come.



    I don't follow you on this one. The most really prominent different religions of the world developed centuries if not millenia apart from one another.


    However, this would certainly explain God's characteristic growth toward His Creation as God better understands us, especially having be incarnate as one of us in Jesus of Nazareth.

    So, no, I don't believe God has developed over time according to mankind's changes, but rather to God's own developement in understanding us and how to deal best with us.


    Very true, but a link between the earliest man and any other life form prior to man's seeming to just pop up on planet Earth, should be available in at least some form of evidence. We certainly have enough other animals records in fossils and the such, so why not man?

    The most logical answer is that we simply have not yet found the place where our evidence exists. Since we have been pretty much everywhere habitibal on Earth, logic then tells us to either look in the unihabital regions or maybe even elsewhere then planet Earth.
    See, that is why I did not want to go down this road with you. When you want to you do some really good analysis and depth of reasoning backed up by a lot of knowledge. See I get myself into trouble taking the quick path summarizing some thoughts in a few simple statements and it opens a whole can of worms. Would be fun to really tackle this one but I have other priorities at the moment and have to keep off this keyboard.

    Probably the easiest way to do this is to comment on my statements than to discuss yours.
    Why is it that we had most of our religious faiths develop around the same time in history?
    OK that was a bit of a simplification. More in the line of the religions developed in the same period of a society's evolution. Most took place at a time far removed from our own and things have not changed much since. Again a oversimplification.
    How much of the bible is his words and how much are those of the people he used to write the stories?
    I am not saying that the words have changed over time but that the original stories may have been influenced by the societal moors of the time.

  11. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Hmmm, I just added up a bunch of easily found statistics and it seems that there were more wars in the 20th century then in any other century, resulting in more deaths in the 20th century then in any other century, more people killed by non-war violence in the 20th century then any other century, and the 21st century is starting out even worse.

    violence against women has risen dramatically over the past 30 years in Muslim and South American countries and China and really.....if homosexuals would just stop acting like such flaming fags we wouldn't even give a crap what they suck and where they stick their peckers.
    This one is a question more of time frame rather than numbers. I was referring to the trend of the last 5-10 years rather than throughout the centuries. In the 20th century technology made use very efficient at killing each other.

    Sure there are places where violence has flared up but on a whole the world is becoming less violent.

    A couple of links to ponder, again I have some other priorities today but I wanted to respond to you guys.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8471147.stm

    http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm

    http://www.hsrgroup.org/human-securi.../overview.aspx

  12. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas-Tech View Post
    Scientists take the side of whom ever pays their way.
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    This is an unfortunate major factor. This is also why government should not be involved in the sciences or the arts. Back when a scientist had to persuade some rich folk that what they wanted to attempt to prove was worth those rich folk giving the scientist money to explore his theories, that scientist had better have something truly interesting and worthwhile going on. Now, scientists get government grants for some of the dumbest and most worthless projects or become the proof patsies for some government bureaucrat looking to make him or her self famous.

    See, this makes no sense at all, why spend valuable time and money, trying to prove something to someone that already believes in evolution. Is it like maybe, some are not sure about evolution, and need more proof? if so the Government should save their time and money, and just read here.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
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  13. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    How is it that the God of the bible first wanted sacrifices to him and as time went on he turned into a more kinder gentler god?
    God never wanted sacrifices;


    Hebrews 10:8 (New Covenant)Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

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