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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Arizona, Sedona & verde valley
    Posts
    78

    Question

    A customer of mine is building an addition on to her maids apartment for a rare 18 year old parrot. She is spending over 150k on this project. I have calculated the btu gain to be 3 ton. My question is... Has anyone ever encountered cooling and heating a giant bird house of all glass? I am leaning towards installing an air handler outside the room and ducting it in. Is there special equipment designed for such application? If so where do I find it? However a ductless split would be great if the bird wouldn't tear it up! Please advise! She is very attached to this bird and I would not want anything to happen to it as well. Of course whatever goes in.. I think I need to make some exclusions in my actuall contract before proceeding. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,711
    I have done some pretty weird systems based on customer requests including installing an variable speed exhaust fan over a kitty litter box about 6 months ago.

    The BIG problem with birds and A/C is that the cold air can cause the bird to get a cold. Birds don't live when they get a cold. Don't ask me how I know.

    It's better for the bird to remain warm to hot with no refrigerated air blowing across it. Most birds of that type are use to and need a hot climate anyway.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    7,403
    Sounds to me like you'd want several registers to help evenly cool the place, but also to keep the velocity down so there's no cool air blowing around, just a (relitivly) cool room.

    Just curious how you're going to mount a stat in there and protect it from the bird, maybe a lock box?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    $150k on a bird. it is possible to have TOO much money.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Arizona, Sedona & verde valley
    Posts
    78
    The design temp she want's is 78 degrees. There is only one wall available for registers or a ductless. The thermostat will be mounted externally from the bird cage/house with a remote sensor in the room. I am concerned about air blowing on the bird. That is why a posted this topic. Would 78 degrees be something I could acomplish with a swamp cooler here in arizona? Advise?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,711
    OK You're the one whose going to get the call one morning that the bird is laying upside down in the cage with it's feet up in the air.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    I think the only safe bet would be a heatpump, auto changeover designed at a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW static pressure and an HRV for fresh air.

    If it were here, in the northeast, the answer is easy- radiant floor heat, and an HRV.

    Arizona is a tad different, though.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    Several to many high velocity ceiling or high side wall registers with single direction, low pressure drop blades aimed at the outside wall will cause the air plume to hug the ceiling and even the outside wall. As it looses velocity the plume will diffusely dissipate along the ceiling and wall. Scroll down to page 8 and look at the purty picture. The bird isn't completely stupid. It isn't going to hover right near the discharge and get its feathers blasted. Nor will it hang from the ceiling (unless the owner gives it something to hang from – so make sure toys aren’t too high up) and get directly into the air plume. Nor will it hug the glass and get itself into the air plume that way. By the time the air plume makes it to the floor of the outside wall it'll have diffused to unnoticeable velocities.

    In other words, in terms of airflow this is no different than any other project. Good design means you condition the air so that the occupant doesn't know it, be that bird or man. That has always meant high discharge velocities (500 to 700 FPM with special order diffusers) to ensure proper mixing. And that has always meant doing so right next to the wall or ceiling (within a foot or less) so that the plume will hug those surfaces and diffuse. Low velocity is exactly the wrong thing to do because it will cause severe stratification. The bird won't hang from the ceiling or outside wall glass. But it will likely walk along the floor at some point. Low velocity will cause the floor to be very cold.

    Also you want much higher than normal CFMs. As Delta said, parrots like it warm. Arizona is that. But they also like it humid, or at least more so than you or I. 500 CFM per ton would be highly recommended. Dry that air out even more that it already is with a typical 350 CFM per ton or less and the bird might be unhealthy. Scroll down to "The Importance Of Showering Parrots". Related to this issue, be wary of oversizing. Manual J is documented to oversize. Oversizing will be a big deal in winter due to drying of the air. If it's gas heat, get the absolute smallest BTUs you can find and then derate it as much as you can get the OEM to give you permission to do. A humidifier for the winter months might be needed. Just don't overdo it and cause mold.

    As Dave said, air quality is of utmost importance. A small amount of fresh air with very good filtration and a very slight positive pressure would all be good. Related to that, mold is more likely with low velocity. Low velocity inside wall discharge will not only cause stratification but will let the glass areas get much colder than the inside walls. Condensation may result. You NEED high velocity discharge hugging the ceiling and wall to keep things even year round.

    Choose carefully. And most importantly, don't call me when it dies. That's what insurance is for.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,711
    OK I just learned way too much about birds. But I can understand some of my own symptoms now.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Arizona, Sedona & verde valley
    Posts
    78

    Thumbs up

    Thank you for all of your reply's! I have been in the
    hvac business for 28 years and have never had to deal with someone cooling there bird house. I was thinking about using an erv unit for fresh air. I was actually going to quote it as an option but now I see it is a neccesity for this type of application. I especially like the articals found at comapanionparrot.com (Thanks Irascible) I have shared with my client your responses and she is pleased. I am also selling this client a monitoring system from honeywell just in case the system goes down when she is gone it will notify her and our company for a no cooling or no heating problem. Thanks for closing the deal! Air conditioning, heating, ERV, and a complete monitoring system from honeywell.

    Thank you hvac-talk professionals!


    Exclusion: Not responsible for the death of parrott!

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