To Homeowners & DIYer's

[fat eddy]

I hope that you notice the apparent trend that if you ask a question about a problem you are having that you get bombarded for more requests for more data and more measurements . I sincerely hope that this doesn't make you think that maybe these guys can't figure it out, on the contrary we are asking you to gather the same info that we would be gathering in the first ten minutes we are in your home. I just want to clear this up because in reality this is what the actual service call to your home should net you. As great as the internet is it does not beat being there. I think you will find a linear relationship between correct answers posted here for homeowner problems and the amount of correct data that they have posted. You are dealing with people on this site that will be in the lowest percentile of service calls to callbacks.

[Swampfox]

No...This is not a DIY site, the only advice we should be giving DIY'ers is to call a pro!!

[fat eddy]

I understand that, but the reality is that they come and ask questions and we being the customer oriented people that we are do not turn them down.

[retired btc]

Its fine to give some non technical advice I would think such as what a persons options are in selection of equipment, A few of the questions I have seen ask pertaining to actualy repair have been pretty much shot down be most, In reality a lot of Info is Included it the service manuals that come with the furnaces, I/E codes and such and what to do about them, not that a person should be changing thins with no clues either, some time's you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them !

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by fat eddy
I understand that, but the reality is that they come and ask questions and we being the customer oriented people that we are do not turn them down.

Click on the link in my signature line.

Specifically:

Forum rule #2
Do-It-Yourselfers - not here.

This site is for industry professionals and folks seeking HVAC/R advice and knowledge. Please do not ask for step by step instructions on purchasing, installing or repairing your own HVAC equipment, that is our job and our livelihood. We are generous, but not to a fault.

Questions of this type will not be answered and may be deleted

Swampfox is correct that this is NOT a DIY site, and no matter how customer-oriented you might be, these people are NOT your customers.

[Edited by condenseddave on 02-20-2005 at 07:20 PM]

[fat eddy]

I realize all of this, I was merely stating what I see, obviously I don't see the posts that get deleted. If they ask a question and it does not get deleted I have to assume that the question was allowed to be posted and conformed to the rules. At that point being the polite and professional person that I am I will try to answer their question to the best of my ability. It is not my nature to offend people just because they do not make a living the same way that I do.

[fixit50]

I say there should be a pay per question for the home owners to ask their questions if they want a real answer, then if you are an acvtive member here and a paying member and OWN an hvac business then there should be a secure area for that. Pay per question.... I think that has been brought up before.

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by fat eddy
I realize all of this, I was merely stating what I see, obviously I don't see the posts that get deleted. If they ask a question and it does not get deleted I have to assume that the question was allowed to be posted and conformed to the rules. At that point being the polite and professional person that I am I will try to answer their question to the best of my ability. It is not my nature to offend people just because they do not make a living the same way that I do.

The reason they don't get deleted is simply because there aren't enough moderators to go around. If the post gets reported to the mods, it gets deleted, if not, then they have no way of knowing.

This has been going on for a long time.

If you're answering DIY questions, you're not only violating the forum rules, but you're opening the owners of the site up to liabilities, should someone cause damage, injury or worse.

Assume nothing, and follow the rules, and everything ill be fine.

It's not impolite to not reply.

[Swampfox]

This forum is moderated sporadically at best, just because a thread doesnt get deleted doesnt mean it passes the rules test, therefore it is up to us PROFESSIONAL members to keep this forum from becoming a DIYer haven, think about it, this is how we make our living, why give your livelyhood away for free over the internet, not to mention the safety concerns of someone unqualified working on hvac equipment, most of the advice I see here doesnt even mention to turn the power off first!!!!!

Hopefully the business lost to the help DIY'ers recieve here comes from those giving the help

/rant

[Pioneer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by condenseddave
[B]

Originally posted by fat eddy
I understand that, but the reality is that they come and ask questions and we being the customer oriented people that we are do not turn them down.

Click on the link in my signature line.

Specifically:

Forum rule #2
Do-It-Yourselfers - not here.

This site is for industry professionals and folks seeking HVAC/R advice and knowledge. Please do not ask for step by step instructions on purchasing, installing or repairing your own HVAC equipment, that is our job and our livelihood. We are generous, but not to a fault.

Questions of this type will not be answered and may be deleted

Dave I think you may have overlooked something in your quote
you completely skipped over this one to get to the section you quoted.

Who Is Welcome Here?

Anyone in the HVAC industry and home or building owners with HVAC/R concerns and other polite and fun people that are willing to contribute.

[condenseddave]

There ar emany Diy sites on the internet, and you'll take note that the professionals here are not posting there, simply because professionals understand the dangers inherent with providing repair advice to untrained individuals from a distance, without ALL of the peritnent information, and without knowing the actual abilities of the untrained individual asking for the repair help.

You could inadvertently cause harm to people indirectly by "helping" the DIY'ers. Remember, these people PROBABLY don't live alone, they PROBABLY have wives and children, who have no idea how dangerous some of the things these guys are trying to do, in the interest of mot paying for a trained person with the proper tools and experience to come check install their systems.

There's a song called "She wasn't good, but she had good intentions". There's a saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Chew on this before you do something that makes you think you're being helpful.

[control_noob]

Originally posted by fat eddy
I realize all of this, I was merely stating what I see, obviously I don't see the posts that get deleted. If they ask a question and it does not get deleted I have to assume that the question was allowed to be posted and conformed to the rules.

This is a flawed statement because (although it says it is )the site is unmoderated. Posts not following the site rules are not deleted, it is up to us to self- moderate. It is nice of you to want to save the world but that is not the purpose of this site.

[Swampfox]

Sure homeowners are welcome here, but rule #1 doesn't negate rule #2, there are other questions a homeowner may have other than how to fix it themselves.

[condenseddave]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pioneer

Originally posted by condenseddave

Originally posted by fat eddy
I understand that, but the reality is that they come and ask questions and we being the customer oriented people that we are do not turn them down.

Click on the link in my signature line.

Specifically:

Forum rule #2
Do-It-Yourselfers - not here.

This site is for industry professionals and folks seeking HVAC/R advice and knowledge. Please do not ask for step by step instructions on purchasing, installing or repairing your own HVAC equipment, that is our job and our livelihood. We are generous, but not to a fault.

Questions of this type will not be answered and may be deleted

Dave I think you may have overlooked something in your quote
you completely skipped over this one to get to the section you quoted.

Who Is Welcome Here?

Anyone in the HVAC industry and home or building owners with HVAC/R concerns and other polite and fun people that are willing to contribute.

I didn't overlook anything.

Read my FIRST line. That's a hyperlink to the site rules.

I never said that anyone wasn't welcome here.

Again, you're trying to twist things around to suit your own unprofessional agenda. Try actually working for a living in the HVAC trade, Seattle, before you dole out anymore of your own version of dangerous advice.

You've tried this before, and lost. So you changed your name slightly, your MO is still the same.

[Edited by condenseddave on 02-20-2005 at 07:49 PM]

[sline-dawg]

Originally posted by fixit50
if you are an acvtive member here and a paying member and OWN an hvac business then there should be a secure area for that. Pay per question.... I think that has been brought up before.

Of us do not OWN our business, but are VERY qualified to answer, just a technicality....

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by swampfox
Sure homeowners are welcome here, but rule #1 doesn't negate rule #2, there are other questions a homeowner may have other than how to fix it themselves.

It's just Seattle Pioneer in disguise, trying to "lay low' in his own inimitable, cowardly manner.

[retired btc]

Originally posted by fixit50
I say there should be a pay per question for the home owners to ask their questions if they want a real answer, then if you are an acvtive member here and a paying member and OWN an hvac business then there should be a secure area for that. Pay per question.... I think that has been brought up before.

Hey I saw that link on E-bay $10.00 per queston !


Hmmmmm your not Indicating that all the Techs on here Should own their own Business before they reply to questions ?

Rule #1 States

Anyone in the HVAC industry and home or building owners with HVAC/R concerns and other polite and fun people that are willing to contribute.


Feel free to ask any question relating to HVAC, or other topics of general interest.

So I don't think charging for real answers to general questions is really justified.

Then too I thought the Pro Forum was for the Real Pros to get answers to their questions !

[condenseddave]

This same crap starts every couple months.

the argument never changes, it just gets brough forward over and over.

[fixit50]

As Dave mentioed there is a liabilty with each answer, how many of theses furnaces have been check for c.o.?/? When was the last time they been cleaned? get it working on here by an answer and some big lawyer comes along and sues the owner of the site and the person who answers it, the only way I see is that a tech comes here gives ansers and then moves on to the next H.O. by having a per per question for the h.o. and a true hvac company answering then who does the liabilty fall upon? See where this can all go? There are alot of qualified contractors on this site and alot of super techs on this site, I have even seen some homeowners answer questions. This is one reason our insurance rates are high, it is a sue happy world and there are people who will sue you for saying or doing anything that they find that they dis like of you.I rambled on to much. Words are all goofed up now.

[fixit50]

Hey I saw that link on E-bay $10.00 per queston !


Show me the link on ebay i have not a thing there sir..