Doc,James i checked rheemote and found it today. then ups showed up with a promo package. Thanks for your help !!!!
Check this site out! It will give you all the info you need to find out who has the best seer rating.....
http://ariprimenet.org/
Doc,James i checked rheemote and found it today. then ups showed up with a promo package. Thanks for your help !!!!
i belong to peta ... people eating tasty animals. all my opinions are just mine.
Now that you mention it, what is COP??
Please step AWAY from the condensing unit.
Coefficence of preformance,
Do any of the others Dehumidifiy like the carriers
Typicly if an ECM is used, its not big deal to have a dehum mode, its internal software and simple to do. For all intents and purposes its a 15% reduction of airflow from nominal switched by a humidity sensor. Im sure most mfg's have dehum, especially in their marquee products.
Literature can be made difficult to understand sometimes.
Its a good point to look at sensible latent capacities. Since Ruud didnt publish staging capacities with the furnace match and Carrier makes it somewhat difficult to use any standard format, it makes it hard to figure it with the match used. You would have to apply some capacity correction factors and power factors. Interpolation is allowed, but I didnt do that. So for ease of explaining look at the same 3 ton unit (in all fairlness I added the Carrier 37-30 since it is a closer match) with the recommended air handler at ARI conditions since that is what is generally published.
Carrier1 3 ton 18 SEER 38TDB36-30 with FV4AN006 (16.5 SEER/ 12.25 EER)
Carrier2 3 ton 18 SEER 38TDB37-30 with FV4AN006 (18 SEER/ 13.15 EER)
Ruud 3 ton 18 SEER UASL with BHN24J (18 SEER / 13.48 to 15.15 EER)
2nd stage, Nominal CFM
Carrier1 = 36,530 total, 27,800 Sens, 8730 Latent (1200 cfm)
Carrier2 = 37,550 total, 28,730 sens, 8820 latent (1200 cfm)
Ruud = 37,600 total, 27,700 Sens, 9,900 latent (1150cfm)
1st stage, Nominal CFM
Carrier1 = 18,040 total, 17,050 sensible, 990 latent (825 cfm)
Carrier2 = 18,530 total, 16,670 sens, 1860 latent (900cfm)
Ruud = 26,400 total, 20,100 sens, 6300 latent (925 cfm)
2nd stage, dehumidify mode
Carrier1 = 34,670 total, 24,020 sens, 10650 latent (900 cfm)
Carrier2 = 35,540 total, 24,680 sens, 10860 latent (900 cfm)
Ruud = 36,600 total, 26,050 sens, 10,550 latent (975cfm)
1st stage, dehumidify mode.
Carrier1 = 17,980 total, 15030 sens, 2950 latent (650cfm)
Carrier2 = 17,710 total, 14,010 sens, 3700 latent (600 cfm)
Ruud = 26,500 total, 19,950 sens, 6550 latent (800 cfm)
[Edited by docholiday on 02-23-2005 at 09:37 AM]
Doc ,That's some impressive latent capacity on the Rudd.
Not that it would change the sensible heat ratio ,in comparison,but low speed/1st stage won't operate long at 95°F outdoors.Plus 80° indoors is unlikely as well.Do you Rudd numbers for "TVA" conditions(75edb-63ewb)??
Also,Ruud at nominal cfm is less total capacity, then at dehum. cfms??
[Edited by dash on 02-23-2005 at 11:20 AM]
I dont have those numbers, sorry but I am sure if you used the same parameters, it would have about the same effect it did on the Carrier. (improved latent performance). You're right the ARI requirements for testing are unrealistic in my opinion but generally they arent engineered so much for those numbers, they should be desinged for performance throughout.
Uhh to answer you next question ...yes (I am ssuming you mean at 1st stage operation nominal vs. dehum). The reason is at full capacity you see that to be the case in both brands, and since Ruud didnt drop the 1st stage to 50% but selected closer to 70%. The relationship isnt affected as much. I imagine the line is crossed around 60%.
I suspect the reasoning is that part load is where it spends the most time they decided 50% would require staging more frequently.
Dash, I wasnt picking on Carrier, dont get me wrong. I was merely pointing out that SEER in and of itself can be deceptively used for advertising even though the 18 is reached by both in limited applications. I was actually hoping somone could post the trane or lennox numbers using thir ultra efficient machine in a similar match.
[Edited by docholiday on 02-23-2005 at 12:00 PM]
Doc ,No problem here ,the numbers are the numbers.
Two things ,one your numbers show Rudd dehum. fan speed,1st stage ,has more total capacity then ,1 stage nominal fan speed.that doesn't seem correct.
Carrier fan speeds for the match shown are slightly different than the nes you mentioned.
38TDB037,FV006:
1st stage nominal-660,dehum-530
2nd stage nominal-1100,dehum-880
All of these can be lowered by 10% ,to increase latent,though the literature doesn't show ratings with every possible cfm.
Hmmm I'll go back when I have some time to review it...
Uhh let me ask you this, and please double check it. You can configure normal cooloing fan to drop by 10%, yes thats correct, but dehum is about a 15% drop from nominal, not from the already reduced 10%. That would be nearly 25%.
Ok yes the Ruud numbers are correct. Since the unit has a good latent capacity as it is, the sensible only drops 150 but we pick up an additional 650 in latent.
Geeze Dash.... I dont know.. who does... fix it for me and make your point! õ¿õ
So when you use the 10% adjust. then on call for dehum. the fan speed is at 15% of nominal not 15% of already reduced speed? correct? The information on the units I install isn't very clear about the dehumidify funtion.
Please step AWAY from the condensing unit.
Yes, you would drop only an addtional 5% on the Ruud, Dash will have to tell you for sure what it is on Carrier. You still have to maintain minimum airflow.
leework2000: Thanks for the link to get the SEER numbers. It looks like the Carrier Infiity 18 is rated at 13 SEER and the Trane XL19i is 16 SEER. Both lower than the advertised numbers. Sure nothing to jump up and shout about.
I think we are going to go with the Carrier system. I have heard about some problems with the Trane dual comressor set up. It's also higher in $, that and the fact that the Carrier infinity controls are supposed to be so good.
Thanks or all the help it has been a good discssion.
Jane